Let's take a look at things for a moment. Should we also change our words for females? Female. Woman. That's part of the language.

As for the distinction between "actor" and "actress," that's even more ridiculous. That doesn't even have anything masculine in it, and the women want their own. We don't need to follow the French's "actrice."

The only case that I feel it is needed is when the word deals with sexuality and gender. For instance, adulterer and adulteress -- those aren't really a needed distinction, but I can see why someone would need that.

Why is it needed to clearly state that you're a woman who waits on tables? "Waiter" is an all-purpose word.

So, the feminists saying that it takes away women's rights or whatever, no, it just makes our word all-purpose, and your words "special." So, your rights? No -- ours.

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And anyone that thinks that have "man" as a suffix is politically incorrect is an idiot, like you said "WoMAN" "FeMALE". Though I would wonder what they would change those to if they decided to take the "masculine" part out of them.

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Because that you are NOT a woman or girl, you have no idea how important it is to girls and women that we are equal to men.

Yes, it may just be a word to you, but let's focus in: that word has MAN. Of course it's been come to known but as times have changed, so should the words as well.

Everytime I hear a man complain about how women fight too hard for equal rights, I think of a story my mom told me when I was little.

My mom applied for a job that she was very experienced in but did not get it because the boss of the company hired a man instead just for that fact- he was a man.

My mother was devestated. The man sent her roses to make her feel better, but that made her feel worse. She didn't sue because she was afraid her case wasn't strong enough.

The suffix 'man' has EVERYTHING to do with men - it's right there in the word. At one time it meant 'man' - it still does. To you it's just a word - to me, not changing that word and calling me a ___man when I am a WOMAN cancels everything ever told by Elizabeth Stanton and Susan B. Anthony.

The reason words are 'woman' and 'female' is because Eve was part of Adam. Again, I'm not sure I even like that. I don't like the fact that female came from male. Why can't women be independent? This is probably why I enjoy 'The da Vinci Code' so much.

The distinction between actor and actress states if the person is a man or woman. It's so important that you call me a word with a suffix that applies to both sexes. When you don't I feel as if all the equality between men and women has gone.

I find it funny that the only time you would want a distinction between gender is a word in which describes a sinful acting person. Well, we MUST know if it was a women and must use the feminine suffix because if we used a masculine suffix and the person committing adultry was a woman, God forbid we thought this sinful act was committed by a man! I find this offensive.

OUR rights are NOT specific to men. OUR rights are for MEN AND WOMEN. PERSON is a word that means both. So instead of saying chairman, you say chairperson. Is it so hard to say a word that not only shows respect for me, a woman, but just has three extra letters?

Rebuttal that for me, please.

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Because that you are NOT a woman or girl, you have no idea how important it is to girls and women that we are equal to men.

Language doesn't change your rights, just like "sinister" being "left" in Latin doesn't make left-handed people evil, or evil people left-handed.

Yes, it may just be a word to you, but let's focus in: that word has MAN. Of course it's been come to known but as times have changed, so should the words as well.

They have changed. Nature hasn't found the necessity to make everything neutral, so it hasn't. Religion hasn't had this effect, either.

Everytime I hear a man complain about how women fight too hard for equal rights, I think of a story my mom told me when I was little.  

My mom applied for a job that she was very experienced in but did not get it because the boss of the company hired a man instead just for that fact- he was a man.  

My mother was devestated. The man sent her roses to make her feel better, but that made her feel worse. She didn't sue because she was afraid her case wasn't strong enough.

That's a job, and this is language. What you call something doesn't change what it is. Let's bring in a religious example. The Christian god can be named God, Allah/Al-llah, YHVH, Jehovah, Dío, Dieu, and thousands of other names. Has he changed at all by changing his name? Not at all. The only difference is that one is considered his "true" name, but that's more of a religious discussion than female rights.

The suffix 'man' has EVERYTHING to do with men - it's right there in the word. At one time it meant 'man' - it still does. To you it's just a word - to me, not changing that word and calling me a ___man when I am a WOMAN cancels everything ever told by Elizabeth Stanton and Susan B. Anthony.

How does saying, "This woman is a chairman," call you a man? It's language, deary. Men really don't give a damn because it doesn't make sense. It's a word. It changes nothing. In Spanish, woman is "mujer," yet they don't change it to "mujera," which would be a more proper ending, as words ending in R tend to be masculine (though the word "mujer" is not). It's the same concept. It can look like a masculine word, yet it doesn't have to be. "She is a chairman." Yep. You still have your gender, otherwise it would become "He is a chairman," regardless to the fact that you're a female.

The reason words are 'woman' and 'female' is because Eve was part of Adam. Again, I'm not sure I even like that. I don't like the fact that female came from male. Why can't women be independent? This is probably why I enjoy 'The da Vinci Code' so much.

That's the religious aspect of language, and most likely those aren't the origins of the word. Judaism began in the Middle East (or northern Africa, I forget, something like that). English derived from things that are very far from those.

The distinction between actor and actress states if the person is a man or woman. It's so important that you call me a word with a suffix that applies to both sexes. When you don't I feel as if all the equality between men and women has gone.

Right, so I would call you an "actor," as that is a neutral word. Giving it another word means that there are two words for females and only one for males. Biased much?

I find it funny that the only time you would want a distinction between gender is a word in which describes a sinful acting person. Well, we MUST know if it was a women and must use the feminine suffix because if we used a masculine suffix and the person committing adultry was a woman, God forbid we thought this sinful act was committed by a man! I find this offensive.

Not at all, see, I was going to use "widow" and "widower," but that doesn't use the -ess suffix. You need these words because they are the same as the distinction between "wife" and "husband." I marry a woman, a woman cheated on me, and a woman died. You marry a man, a man cheats on you, and a man dies. These are words that aren't quite related. Words in other languages are totally different (usually) for those, but there are always more neutral words (such as spouse). Why is it that in language there's a distinct separation between "wife" and "husband?" I don't know, it's how things are.

OUR rights are NOT specific to men. OUR rights are for MEN AND WOMEN. PERSON is a word that means both. So instead of saying chairman, you say chairperson. Is it so hard to say a word that not only shows respect for me, a woman, but just has three extra letters?

I haven't a problem with saying "chairperson," i just have a problem with the idea. I don't like it when people go and change language like that, getting rid of evolution. It's not natural. It's weird. Slighly related is that I avoid using English-borrowed words in other languages. I don't say "weekends" instead of "fines de semana."

Rebuttal that for me, please.

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Language that I use everyday DOES affect my rights. It's something I must live with everyday and it makes me mad to think that it's something that belongs to men even though I use it as well.

They have changed. Nature hasn't found the necessity to make everything neutral, so it hasn't. Religion hasn't had this effect, either.

That's a job, and this is language. What you call something doesn't change what it is. Let's bring in a religious example. The Christian god can be named God, Allah/Al-llah, YHVH, Jehovah, Dío, Dieu, and thousands of other names. Has he changed at all by changing his name? Not at all. The only difference is that one is considered his "true" name, but that's more of a religious discussion than female rights.

Bringing religion into this is pointless. Not everyone is religious and showing me religious points and examples will not affect me because I am not that religious. God is not said to be a man or woman - my personal beliefs don't say so. And the many names he uses is for RELIGIONS, not sexes.

How does saying, "This woman is a chairman," call you a man?

It has the word man in it.

It's language, deary. Men really don't give a damn because it doesn't make sense. It's a word. It changes nothing.

I don't like being talked down to. I'm an equal just like you so talk to me like I'm a person. Would you call another man 'deary'? If men don't 'give a damn' because it doesn't make sense, then they are as naiive as you are being. It does NOT make sense. In the past, in history, have we accepted beliefs that did not make sense? Facts that did not make sense and were not true? No, so why should we accept it now? It changes everything. It changes how I feel, if I see if you have respect for me in the fact that I am a woman or not.

In Spanish, woman is "mujer," yet they don't change it to "mujera," which would be a more proper ending, as words ending in R tend to be masculine (though the word "mujer" is not). It's the same concept. It can look like a masculine word, yet it doesn't have to be. "She is a chairman." Yep. You still have your gender, otherwise it would become "He is a chairman," regardless to the fact that you're a female.

I do not have my gender in the word CHAIRMAN, which is what I want. Why is it so hard for you to let me be equal to you and accept me as an equal?

That's the religious aspect of language, and most likely those aren't the origins of the word. Judaism began in the Middle East (or northern Africa, I forget, something like that). English derived from things that are very far from those.

Right, so I would call you an "actor," as that is a neutral word. Giving it another word means that there are two words for females and only one for males. Biased much?

Biased? I believe that I asked to be called an actress not an actor, which is a word for a man who performs on stage or in movies. That's one word for each.

Not at all, see, I was going to use "widow" and "widower," but that doesn't use the -ess suffix. You need these words because they are the same as the distinction between "wife" and "husband." I marry a woman, a woman cheated on me, and a woman died. You marry a man, a man cheats on you, and a man dies. These are words that aren't quite related. Words in other languages are totally different (usually) for those, but there are always more neutral words (such as spouse). Why is it that in language there's a distinct separation between "wife" and "husband?" I don't know, it's how things are.

I haven't a problem with saying "chairperson," i just have a problem with the idea. I don't like it when people go and change language like that, getting rid of evolution. It's not natural. It's weird. Slighly related is that I avoid using English-borrowed words in other languages. I don't say "weekends" instead of "fines de semana."

It's not natural for women and men to be equal? That's what I read in that sentence.

You keep veering from topic and talking about language.

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Language that I use everyday DOES affect my rights. It's something I must live with everyday and it makes me mad to think that it's something that belongs to men even though I use it as well.

It's only offensive because you're making it offensive. In the past, it might have meant that "only men can be _____," but today, it doesn't. We clearly see they can. Today it's just words. Past society and religion shows in language, though the culture affects the language, not the other way around. Our days of the week (most, not all) are named after gods. Christians don't complain about that.

They have changed. Nature hasn't found the necessity to make everything neutral, so it hasn't. Religion hasn't had this effect, either.

That's a job, and this is language. What you call something doesn't change what it is. Let's bring in a religious example. The Christian god can be named God, Allah/Al-llah, YHVH, Jehovah, Dío, Dieu, and thousands of other names. Has he changed at all by changing his name? Not at all. The only difference is that one is considered his "true" name, but that's more of a religious discussion than female rights.

Bringing religion into this is pointless. Not everyone is religious and showing me religious points and examples will not affect me because I am not that religious. God is not said to be a man or woman - my personal beliefs don't say so. And the many names he uses is for RELIGIONS, not sexes.  

Right. Then I won't use religion for this one. Bread is called bread, pan, khobs, and again, thousands of other names. It's still bread. You missed my point. My point was that no matter what you call something, it doesn't change. If someone's a waalada, madre, mère, or mother, they are still a mother. They're just called something different. I call my dad dad, father, papa, baba, pa, and daddy, yet he's still the same person. Half of me still came out of his penis. I call my mom mom, mother, mama, ma, and mommy, yet she's still the same person. I still came out of her vagina.

How does saying, "This woman is a chairman," call you a man?  

It has the word man in it.

So does chairwoman.

It's language, deary. Men really don't give a damn because it doesn't make sense. It's a word. It changes nothing.  

I don't like being talked down to. I'm an equal just like you so talk to me like I'm a person. Would you call another man 'deary'? If men don't 'give a damn' because it doesn't make sense, then they are as naiive as you are being. It does NOT make sense. In the past, in history, have we accepted beliefs that did not make sense? Facts that did not make sense and were not true? No, so why should we accept it now? It changes everything. It changes how I feel, if I see if you have respect for me in the fact that I am a woman or not.

I'm not talking down at all. You are my equal. I called you "deary" because you're my best friend. If you were a male, I'd have called you "bud." We accept language now because it's how nature intended it. You're regressing language, not further evolving it. As time goes on, language tends to lose gender (among other things), so in due time, it will become neutral. It was nearly there, until you make it "chairwoman," which makes it that much harder for it to change.

In Spanish, woman is "mujer," yet they don't change it to "mujera," which would be a more proper ending, as words ending in R tend to be masculine (though the word "mujer" is not). It's the same concept. It can look like a masculine word, yet it doesn't have to be. "She is a chairman." Yep. You still have your gender, otherwise it would become "He is a chairman," regardless to the fact that you're a female.

I do not have my gender in the word CHAIRMAN, which is what I want. Why is it so hard for you to let me be equal to you and accept me as an equal?

You are equal to me, love. Aside from not hitting hard; there I have you beat. Exactly, your gender isn't in "chairman," nor is it in "chairwoman."

That's the religious aspect of language, and most likely those aren't the origins of the word. Judaism began in the Middle East (or northern Africa, I forget, something like that). English derived from things that are very far from those.

Right, so I would call you an "actor," as that is a neutral word. Giving it another word means that there are two words for females and only one for males. Biased much?

Biased? I believe that I asked to be called an actress not an actor, which is a word for a man who performs on stage or in movies. That's one word for each.

Exactly, furthering the gap between equality. Fighting for distinction makes you more distinct, not more equal.

Not at all, see, I was going to use "widow" and "widower," but that doesn't use the -ess suffix. You need these words because they are the same as the distinction between "wife" and "husband." I marry a woman, a woman cheated on me, and a woman died. You marry a man, a man cheats on you, and a man dies. These are words that aren't quite related. Words in other languages are totally different (usually) for those, but there are always more neutral words (such as spouse). Why is it that in language there's a distinct separation between "wife" and "husband?" I don't know, it's how things are.

I haven't a problem with saying "chairperson," i just have a problem with the idea. I don't like it when people go and change language like that, getting rid of evolution. It's not natural. It's weird. Slighly related is that I avoid using English-borrowed words in other languages. I don't say "weekends" instead of "fines de semana."

It's not natural for women and men to be equal? That's what I read in that sentence.

You keep veering from topic and talking about language.  

It's not natural for people to change language on their own. Again, I don't use borrowed words in other languages, unless they've been borrowed for a long time. It's not natural to shove things into language because they don't seem "right." Language doesn't care. Language is so ancient, it doesn't care about being "right," it's communication, and that's it. I'm not veering from this topic. This topic is about prejudice and linguistics, moreso linguistics than prejudice.
 
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It's offensive to me because I still see the word 'man.'

Right. Then I won't use religion for this one. Bread is called bread, pan, khobs, and again, thousands of other names. It's still bread. You missed my point. My point was that no matter what you call something, it doesn't change. If someone's a waalada, madre, mère, or mother, they are still a mother. They're just called something different. I call my dad dad, father, papa, baba, pa, and daddy, yet he's still the same person. Half of me still came out of his penis. I call my mom mom, mother, mama, ma, and mommy, yet she's still the same person. I still came out of her vagina.

I knew you'd say penis sometime soon.

So does chairwoman.

I would like the word 'chairperson' then.

I'm not talking down at all. You are my equal. I called you "deary" because you're my best friend. If you were a male, I'd have called you "bud." We accept language now because it's how nature intended it. You're regressing language, not further evolving it. As time goes on, language tends to lose gender (among other things), so in due time, it will become neutral. It was nearly there, until you make it "chairwoman," which makes it that much harder for it to change.

Ok I forgive you for the deary thing because of the best friend thing. But it should be chairperson so it is fair for both genders.

You are equal to me, love. Aside from not hitting hard; there I have you beat. Exactly, your gender isn't in "chairman," nor is it in "chairwoman."

Why can't both our genders be chairperson?

Exactly, furthering the gap between equality. Fighting for distinction makes you more distinct, not more equal.

It's making the gap narrower by calling us the same name, the same EQUAL name...

It's not natural for people to change language on their own. Again, I don't use borrowed words in other languages, unless they've been borrowed for a long time. It's not natural to shove things into language because they don't seem "right." Language doesn't care. Language is so ancient, it doesn't care about being "right," it's communication, and that's it. I'm not veering from this topic. This topic is about prejudice and linguistics, moreso linguistics than prejudice.
  
Language doesn't care, but society does.

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It's offensive to me because I still see the word 'man.'  

Then should we change all names of days? I don't like how Sunday is referring to a pagan holiday. I don't like how Monday refers to the goddess of the moon. I don't like how Tuesday is named after the Norse god, Tyr. I don't like how Wednesday is named to honour Odin. I don't like how Thursday is named after Thor. I don't like how Friday is named after the Norse goddess Frigg. I don't like how Saturday is honouring Saturn. The days offend me because I'm Christian.

Right. Then I won't use religion for this one. Bread is called bread, pan, khobs, and again, thousands of other names. It's still bread. You missed my point. My point was that no matter what you call something, it doesn't change. If someone's a waalada, madre, mère, or mother, they are still a mother. They're just called something different. I call my dad dad, father, papa, baba, pa, and daddy, yet he's still the same person. Half of me still came out of his penis. I call my mom mom, mother, mama, ma, and mommy, yet she's still the same person. I still came out of her vagina.  

I knew you'd say penis sometime soon.  

So does chairwoman.  

I would like the word 'chairperson' then.

This is about English Gender DISTINCTION. *points to topic name*

 I'm not talking down at all. You are my equal. I called you "deary" because you're my best friend. If you were a male, I'd have called you "bud." We accept language now because it's how nature intended it. You're regressing language, not further evolving it. As time goes on, language tends to lose gender (among other things), so in due time, it will become neutral. It was nearly there, until you make it "chairwoman," which makes it that much harder for it to change.  

Ok I forgive you for the deary thing because of the best friend thing. But it should be chairperson so it is fair for both genders.

See title name.

You are equal to me, love. Aside from not hitting hard; there I have you beat. Exactly, your gender isn't in "chairman," nor is it in "chairwoman."  

Why can't both our genders be chairperson?  

Because it didn't happen naturally. It's just feminists changing language, which I don't like.

Exactly, furthering the gap between equality. Fighting for distinction makes you more distinct, not more equal.  

It's making the gap narrower by calling us the same name, the same EQUAL name...

Not if we have gender distinction.

It's not natural for people to change language on their own. Again, I don't use borrowed words in other languages, unless they've been borrowed for a long time. It's not natural to shove things into language because they don't seem "right." Language doesn't care. Language is so ancient, it doesn't care about being "right," it's communication, and that's it. I'm not veering from this topic. This topic is about prejudice and linguistics, moreso linguistics than prejudice.  
     
Language doesn't care, but society does.

Society can care, but they have no true control over language.

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And gender distiction would bring us closer by showing equal respect for both genders. Seeing both as equals...

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Feminists just change words because they already belong to MAN.  

And gender distiction would bring us closer by showing equal respect for both genders. Seeing both as equals...

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Distinction doesn't make equality. It shows difference.

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Men and women both have something, so they are equal.

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Feeling and being equal are different. Women have a lot better rights in some cases, and a lot worse in others.

Maybe women should start holding open doors for men, opening car doors for men, and men should start screaming 'Rape!' and 'Harrassment!' as soon as they're touched. Because, of course, we want to be 'equal'.

The fact is, no gender will ever be equal. We weren't made equally. We have different centres of gravity, and therefore are different. We have different reproductive organs, different chemicals, and different ideas.

You can't change language just because you're insecure. Without man, woman is nothing. Without male, female is just the same. Notice how they essentially have the same meaning? It's a word. Not a symbol, just a word.

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To change the language just because a gender wants to feel equal isn't very logical.

Feeling and being equal are different. Women have a lot better rights in some cases, and a lot worse in others.

Maybe women should start holding open doors for men, opening car doors for men, and men should start screaming 'Rape!' and 'Harrassment!' as soon as they're touched. Because, of course, we want to be 'equal'.

The fact is, no gender will ever be equal. We weren't made equally. We have different centres of gravity, and therefore are different. We have different reproductive organs, different chemicals, and different ideas.

You can't change language just because you're insecure. Without man, woman is nothing. Without male, female is just the same. Notice how they essentially have the same meaning? It's a word. Not a symbol, just a word.

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It's what stands behind the word - I'm not insecure. And not all women scream rape. Stereotypist?

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Quote: from throwthisaway at 9:58 pm on Nov. 16, 2006

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To change the language just because a gender wants to feel equal isn't very logical.  

 Feeling and being equal are different. Women have a lot better rights in some cases, and a lot worse in others.  

 Maybe women should start holding open doors for men, opening car doors for men, and men should start screaming 'Rape!' and 'Harrassment!' as soon as they're touched. Because, of course, we want to be 'equal'.  

 The fact is, no gender will ever be equal. We weren't made equally. We have different centres of gravity, and therefore are different. We have different reproductive organs, different chemicals, and different ideas.  

 You can't change language just because you're insecure. Without man, woman is nothing. Without male, female is just the same. Notice how they essentially have the same meaning? It's a word. Not a symbol, just a word.

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It's what stands behind the word - I'm not insecure. And not all women scream rape. Stereotypist?

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The majority do. I'm working with the numbers here. If a female was to fight with a male, even though the female instigated the fight, the male would still get in trouble for hitting the woman. Even if it was in self defense.

There are countless topics in the Rants section about this happening to people, and it's because women are not equal to men. However, it works in the favor of the women, does it not?

Things can't stand behind words. It's the meaning that counts; one cannot exist without the other.

The word "female" does not, etymologically, refer the opposite sex of a male, but rather stems from the Vulgar Latin term "femina". This term was derived from the Classical Latin word "felare" or, literally, "to suckle" in English.

So, basically, "female" does not intrinsically have any sexism attached to it; it originates in the motherly action of feeding our young.