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  LiveWire / Teen Forums / Religion & Philosophy / Viewing Topic

The Quran
and other holy texts
Replies: 14Last Post Aug. 23, 2010 6:54pm by Wilder
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( Wilder  )


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I'm extraordinarily tired of people citing the Quran and telling me that this is what Muslims believe/ must believe/ ect. Maybe if we lived in a literalist theocracy that had holy texts in lieu of constitutions I might be vaguely sympathetic to someone making this mistake, but how can anyone in the West (a term I use in the arbitrary ideological sense moreso than the arbitrary geographic) honestly float this piece of shit argument my way and not be immediately overwhelmed by its stench? It doesn't matter what a holy text from fucking forever ago says when no one who matters cares.
/rant

-------
In so far as the word "knowledge" has any meaning, the world is knowable;
but it is interpretable otherwise,
it has no meaning behind it, but countless meanings.
-Nietzsche

4:10 pm on Aug. 21, 2010 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 2,325
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People use whatever they can to back up thier Arrghument.

4:11 pm on Aug. 21, 2010 | Joined: July 2010 | Days Active: 373
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FallingAwayFromMe


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"It doesn't matter what a holy text from fucking forever ago says when no one who matters cares."

I really enjoyed that line.


4:12 pm on Aug. 21, 2010 | Joined: Oct. 2008 | Days Active: 197
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Happilydemented


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I am also tired of Muslims (NOT all, I know) using the Quran as an excuse to force women in oppressive clothing, stone them to death and use any sort of radical  crual and inumane behavior all in the name of "religion" especially when the Quran doesn't even specifically state these things. Then again, I'm just someone from the west arnt I?

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History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. -Winston Churchill

4:45 pm on Aug. 21, 2010 | Joined: Nov. 2007 | Days Active: 309
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Forever Angel


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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11045848

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It's learning how to dance in the rain
"What one person receives without working for,
another person must work for without receiving."

2:45 am on Aug. 22, 2010 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 3,133
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SpM


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Quote: from Forever Angel at 10:45 am on Aug. 22, 2010

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11045848

in what sense is this relevant?

2:54 am on Aug. 22, 2010 | Joined: Feb. 2007 | Days Active: 1,559
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Forever Angel


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Quote: from SpM at 4:54 am on Aug. 22, 2010

Quote: from Forever Angel at 10:45 am on Aug. 22, 2010

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11045848

in what sense is this relevant?

"It doesn't matter what a holy text from fucking forever ago says when no one who matters cares."

-------
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's learning how to dance in the rain
"What one person receives without working for,
another person must work for without receiving."

3:32 am on Aug. 22, 2010 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 3,133
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Moridin


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Quote: from Wilder at 2:10 am on Aug. 22, 2010

I'm extraordinarily tired of people citing the Quran and telling me that this is what Muslims believe/ must believe/ ect. Maybe if we lived in a literalist theocracy that had holy texts in lieu of constitutions I might be vaguely sympathetic to someone making this mistake, but how can anyone in the West (a term I use in the arbitrary ideological sense moreso than the arbitrary geographic) honestly float this piece of shit argument my way and not be immediately overwhelmed by its stench? It doesn't matter what a holy text from fucking forever ago says when no one who matters cares.
/rant

The problem, of course, is that many do care, especially if you read the polls. To be sure, not everyone does, but many do.

http://pewglobal.org/2005/07/14/islamic-extremism-common-concern-for-muslim-and-western-publics/
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2244293620070522

It is a fallacy to go from "not everyone believes" to "it is not a problem".

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)


4:35 am on Aug. 22, 2010 | Joined: April 2006 | Days Active: 1,003
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lsd


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http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-easoaan-support-a.html

Are you saying that Westerners do this or Muslims do this ?


6:17 pm on Aug. 23, 2010 | Joined: Aug. 2007 | Days Active: 1,093
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( Wilder  )


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Quote: from Moridin at 5:35 am on Aug. 22, 2010

Quote: from Wilder at 2:10 am on Aug. 22, 2010

I'm extraordinarily tired of people citing the Quran and telling me that this is what Muslims believe/ must believe/ ect. Maybe if we lived in a literalist theocracy that had holy texts in lieu of constitutions I might be vaguely sympathetic to someone making this mistake, but how can anyone in the West (a term I use in the arbitrary ideological sense moreso than the arbitrary geographic) honestly float this piece of shit argument my way and not be immediately overwhelmed by its stench? It doesn't matter what a holy text from fucking forever ago says when no one who matters cares.  
 /rant

The problem, of course, is that many do care, especially if you read the polls. To be sure, not everyone does, but many do.

http://pewglobal.org/2005/07/14/islamic-extremism-common-concern-for-muslim-and-western-publics/
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2244293620070522

It is a fallacy to go from "not everyone believes" to "it is not a problem".


Quote: from Forever Angel at 4:32 am on Aug. 22, 2010


Quote: from SpM at 4:54 am on Aug. 22, 2010

Quote: from Forever Angel at 10:45 am on Aug. 22, 2010

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11045848
 
 in what sense is this relevant?

"It doesn't matter what a holy text from fucking forever ago says when no one who matters cares."

My last line might have been excessively flippant, but to clarify my point is not that Islam or the Quran are not taken very seriously in many circumstances. My point is not to pass a normative judgement onto whether or not Islam is "a problem" in the world at all. Rather, it is to note that it is absolutely absurd to point to a passage in a holy text and use this as the basis for asserting that members of the religion [whatever is in said text]. While in theory it might be tempting to say "this is Islam's holy book, this is what it says, thus this is what Islam is and what Muslims do/believe/think", in practice it's no more absurd than expecting Joe Lieberman to stone his family to death should they suggest attending a Unitarian service.

-------
In so far as the word "knowledge" has any meaning, the world is knowable;
but it is interpretable otherwise,
it has no meaning behind it, but countless meanings.
-Nietzsche


6:48 pm on Aug. 23, 2010 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 2,325
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( Wilder  )


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Quote: from lsd at 7:17 pm on Aug. 23, 2010

http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-easoaan-support-a.html  

Are you saying that Westerners do this or Muslims do this ?  


I wasn't really specifying. Specific Westerners were in mind, but obviously the fallacy of essentialist thinking is not solely our domain.

Post edited at 6:55 pm on Aug. 23, 2010 by Wilder

-------
In so far as the word "knowledge" has any meaning, the world is knowable;
but it is interpretable otherwise,
it has no meaning behind it, but countless meanings.
-Nietzsche


6:54 pm on Aug. 23, 2010 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 2,325
Join to learn more about Wilder Colorado, United States | Gay Male | Posts: 16,521 | Points: 40,611
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