let's go back to a poster who i have no personal issue with, but i think is a good example of a member who posts about a consistent number of things: king kong

if you look at his post history, he has a fairly varied array of posts, but he fairly consistently posts about the avengers movie (lately) and doctor who - these are often single posts with a piece of news about casting choices, or webcomics or photos from sets. i have no issue with the content itself (in fact i'm a big doctor who fan myself and often participate in his threads about the subject), but i think that one large thread discussing doctor who is far more in order - he could update the op with information and pictures he feels should be up front, or index the thread (providing links to posts where he or other users mention something of note).

the point i've been trying to make throughout this thread is that such consolidation and organization of topics, regardless of subject matter, will better serve this community - both old and new. productive and interesting conversations can be had by any who want to participate, while the forums on the whole will have a more streamlined flow (rather than the sewage outpipe we see currently).

i'm going to try to practice what i preach and make such a thread about something i'm interested in having an on-going discussion about soon, and will post here when that happens, as an example.

Post edited at 11:33 am on July 16, 2012 by Praise the Lard

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let talk about neither kr or iconoclast for a moment here because most of the players in this discussion are bringing in crazy levels of personal issues in that are not conducive to a productive talk (i myself apologize for making this thread specifically about kidd rune when i posted last night. i meant to illustrate my point using a specific poster and i think that got out of hand almost immediately).

let's go back to a poster who i have no personal issue with, but i think is a good example of a member who posts about a consistent number of things: king kong

if you look at his post history, he has a fairly varied array of posts, but he fairly consistently posts about the avengers movie (lately) and doctor who - these are often single posts with a piece of news about casting choices, or webcomics or photos from sets. i have no issue with the content itself (in fact i'm a big doctor who fan myself and often participate in his threads about the subject), but i think that one large thread discussing doctor who is far more in order - he could update the op with information and pictures he feels should be up front, or index the thread (providing links to posts where he or other users mention something of note).

the point i've been trying to make throughout this thread is that such consolidation and organization of topics, regardless of subject matter, will better serve this community - both old and new. productive and interesting conversations can be had by any who want to participate, while the forums on the whole will have a more streamlined flow (rather than the sewage outpipe we see currently).

i'm going to try to practice what i preach and make such a thread about something i'm interested in having an on-going discussion about soon, and will post here when that happens, as an example.

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Some of the the problem with this is a design flaw in lw that was introduced when the fresh topics bar was. Because of FT threads in forums get largely ignored. To get attention you have to make a new topic because as soon as a topic falls maintaning a conversation becomes hard (even with interested posters).

THe other aspect that worries me is that lw is built to not bump old threads. different forums archive topics at different speeds of course but once a thread is archived it cannot be bumped back to the first page of the forum, even if someone responds to it, this further reduces the number of posters who will visit a topic once it is not in FT or on the first page of a forum.

Taking these 2 factors into account is very necessary because both are technical aspects of lw we cannot change without help from david.

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Do not abandon yourselves to despair.
We are the Easter people and hallelujah is our song.

Pope John Paul II

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You posted about how white people have higher i.q.s than non-white people. You have said that black people are inferior, and I reported you for it. I don't think you actually know what racism is, which is why you are saying you aren't a racist, but if you did I think you would realize very quickly that you HAVE posted racist things. People aren't just running around squawking "racist" at you for fun, Kidd Rune. They are saying it because science done to "prove" that one race is superior or inferior to another or to "prove" that racial segregation should be the way of the world is science performed with bias, which means that it is unsound.

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Just posting about race differences isn't "Racism" retard.


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"The Jewish problem is one of the greatest problems in the world, and
no man, be he writer, politician or diplomatist, can be considered mature
until he has striven to face it squarely on its merits." - HW Steed

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Quote: from kidd rune at 6:01 am on July 16, 2012

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See how he insists I'm a "Racist" despite the fact that I have never posted on single "racist" statement.

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I'm curious, what does the term "racist" mean to you?

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Pretty much the dictionary definition. Apparently your definitition is:
- any argument about race that isn't "politically correct"

which is stupid

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"The Jewish problem is one of the greatest problems in the world, and
no man, be he writer, politician or diplomatist, can be considered mature
until he has striven to face it squarely on its merits." - HW Steed

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His topic about the israeli goods not being banned? yeah, he was basically arguing that free trade is wrong, but he clearly decided to make it about jews (?????????????)  

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I agree, CE.  If he is off derailing topics with his opinion, THAT is a moderation issue I believe needs and could currently be addressed.  Moderators are already equipped to deal with users derailing topics, and if they feel the need, they should pursue that line of moderation.

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Mods go out of their way to support derailment of threads.  The general sense is, you don't have any say in what way a thread turns out.

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LW as a community supports and encourages false
accusations of sex crimes, especially against children.

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Quote: from iconoclast at 11:45 am on July 16, 2012

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And for the 14th time, spammy topics aren't against the rules in DTRM.

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That's not in debate at all? What's in debate is making what Kidd Rune is doing against the rules. The point is if they pursue that, it's completely starting at the end of the problem, when they should be starting at the beginning (you).

Kidd Rune's topics provoke 1) debate and 2) thought (to debate). He creates controversial topics that lead to discussion where he has at the very least put in work to his absurd comments. In contrast, your topics provoke 1) nothing and 2) at the very least a "lol". You create dribble nonsense such as this: http://golivewire.com/forums/peer-ebaatnn-support-a.html over and over and over again where you have at the very most just created a nonsensical topic (over and over and over).

If they want to do this, start at the head, not in the middle of the body.

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If you go through many of KR's topics it is just Polio and some other lamers just going oh it is KR lol instead of any actual attempt at discussion.

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LW as a community supports and encourages false
accusations of sex crimes, especially against children.

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design flaw in lw that was introduced when the fresh topics bar was. Because of FT threads in forums get largely ignored. To get attention you have to make a new topic because as soon as a topic falls maintaning a conversation becomes hard (even with interested posters).  

THe other aspect that worries me is that lw is built to not bump old threads. different forums archive topics at different speeds of course but once a thread is archived it cannot be bumped back to the first page of the forum, even if someone responds to it, this further reduces the number of posters who will visit a topic once it is not in FT or on the first page of a forum.  

 
Taking these 2 factors into account is very necessary because both are technical aspects of lw we cannot change without help from david.

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This is something that I've been mentioning for a long time, or at least fix FT to take out DTRM and maybe a few other forums.

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LW as a community supports and encourages false
accusations of sex crimes, especially against children.

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Because we all agree he should be limited, but we all got stuck on the fact that warning is pretty excessive, and there isn't a way we can stop somebody from posting topics about a certain subject without eventually being banned.

I mean, what, are we only supposed to limit KR's posting to like three a day or something? It isn't regulated like that, and the only option is to warn, which would eventually lead to banning, which would set an unfair precedence.

How about you offer a way we can stop KR from posting so many shitty topics without banning him? Warning wouldn't do anything, because if he ever started to do it again, he'll just be banned, which is something you said you didn't want happening.

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i myself apologize for making this thread specifically about kidd rune when i posted last night. i meant to illustrate my point using a specific poster and i think that got out of hand almost immediately).

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While that's the safest and most logical route to take, I'll be surprised if it garners traction. It's just not feasible to expect users to start "archiving" their own "similar" topics. For example, we used to have stickies for repetitive discussions, and most if not all of those have been fully done away with because they're just stupid. To expect users to carry on a full never ending conversation with 100's of different viewpoints is silly. While I realize what you're suggesting is smaller and more combined, the same issue can be applied.

As annoying and troublesome as you find Kidd Rune's repetitive topics, and as feeble minded and amazingly unoriginal / repetitive as I find Brian's dribble, it's just not fair to expect either of them to confine themselves to one topic. In Kidd Rune's case, he would say "My topics while dealing with the same over all picture of race differ in THIS way or THIS way or THIS way etc. etc." and users like Brian will say, "What do you mean I'm spamming I'm just bored and these topics are about a different subject stop making me a victim!" or what have you. Moderators won't be able to contain something like that, at least not feasibly.

Post edited at 1:00 pm on July 16, 2012 by The Professional

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 7:08 am on July 16, 2012

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Quote: from kidd rune at 6:01 am on July 16, 2012

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See how he insists I'm a "Racist" despite the fact that I have never posted on single "racist" statement.

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I'm curious, what does the term "racist" mean to you?

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1. Hatred or intolerance based on race
2. The belief in superiority/inferiority of one or more races

Pretty much the dictionary definition. Apparently your definitition is:
- any argument about race that isn't "politically correct"

which is stupid

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Your first definition is bigotry, not specifically racism.

Your second definition is what you practice, regardless of your denials. Do you really think you can mask it by claiming that "blacks are better at being blacks even though they have lower IQs"? Bullshit. You're a racist. You don't look at individuals and acknowledge accomplishments, you look at a group and classify them. It's not required that you "hate" them to be a racist, only that you separate them and quantify them based on "race". And you haven't denied that that's what you do.

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Life  isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's learning how to dance in the rain
"Work is not an end in itself;
there must always be time enough for love."

So this is for the OP, and other people. Not you, The Professional. You can just go away.

So here's the scoop. DTRM...is...for...spammy-ish...joke...topics. Posting...these...kinds...of...topics...is...normal...on...the...vast...majority...of....forums!!!11 This guy should stop taking pokes at me, its retarded and immature, and there are are far worse 'spammers' in DTRM. I don't spam that much; they are more joke threads, and people enjoy them. Sometimes they are obscure or self-deprecating, because I don't take myself that seriously. they give much needed life and fun to the forum. if i was creating 10 threads at a shot and they were just random letters or something the same (and no, very few people would agree with him that my threads are the same), he might have a point and id admit to spamming like i have before. see, i actually admit my mistakes. if he were talking about during my early tenure as mod when id post like 20 topics a shot, maybe that didnt give the mod team the best image. fair enough, I'll give him that one too. he might also have a point if that were the case.

however, thats not the case now

widely shitting on threads with stuff that most people would interpret as hugely offensive and racist does damage to the appearance of the forum, both to old members (especially ones coming back) and new members who are checking out multiple forums. the former does not. its simple logic. if he was going to pick an example of 'spamming', pick kass, people dont find her as funny and she spams like fuck. Or what about Nacon? Why me? Why a member who makes some joke topics in DTRM, but also has been incredibly supportive in the past and even over the last 6 months, has made some decent replies? not that i really care that much in DTRM, but yeah seriously dude...its so glaringly obvious that you have an agenda because there are so many worse so called 'spammers' you could cite. and you clearly demonstrate that you dont even get 90% of the jokes i post, so how on earth would you be an adaquate judge of them, their unoriginality, value etc? (not that it really matters) You're not exactly much of a comedian yourself. i was talked to about posting too many topics when i first got back. so i cut down without really complaining, aside from a little initial 'future shock'. there is nothing 'abnormal' or 'wrong' with posting a bunch of jokes and shit in DTRM. its normal on all forums out there. theres something wrong with shitting stuff that will appear racist and offensive everywhere, regardless of intent. that includes the avatar. its about what is practically more damaging, what practically drives new members off, and its the kidd rune type thing. its not about his inane princples or rules. Which do have merit in some situations, but he always takes everything out of context at every opportunity possible. Its because hes always arguing 'in principle' or 'according to the rules', not 'what in reality will cause X result, and what in reality will cause Y result?" Or "What is the purpose of this forum, in spirit?" Or making up various definitions for 'spam' that are too numerous to count. He is a massive idealist completely obsessed with a certain mindset and will not drop it for anything. I've known a few of them. Completely impossible to have a logical discussion with, while they act self-righteous and like they have all the answers and are being perfectly sensible. And they actually believe it!

I'll put it in 5th grader terms: My posting, at worst, does nothing. I am also capable of being supportive and nice, which I have been doing some of (while he has not been). At best, my posting attracts more positive attention to DTRM and gives some life to the forums during off hours...which is badly needed. Again, practicality, ignoring any kind of principles or technicalities.

Kidd Rune's posting, at best, is moderately damaging because it pisses a lot of people off and derails a lot of threads, and at worst, is devastating because new folks see this kind of racist, offensive stuff (even if KR isnt really the huge racist people think he is) and will run. Other forums take care of people like him and that kind of conduct is not allowed. Therefore, because it is allowed here, the conclusion made by new members is that this is not a friendly place, and poorly maintained. An impression that isn't entirely correct, but first impressions are very important. So not literally, but this is what they will think. I know that even I've thought about it before in the distant past, and thought..."my, what an easy place to shit up!" Basically, on other forums that don't have nazi admins and aren't super serious, my behavior would be easily tolerated if not welcomed. On the same forums, Kidd rune's behavior (for example) would not be welcomed and he likely would be disciplined quickly. To compare one to the other makes no sense given this obvious reality.

Back in 09, this is what the mod forum discussions were like. could tell this guy shit 50 times and he still wouldnt listen. no way hed admit he was wrong. Unfortunately, I was too argumentative to just let it go like I should have. See, I can be reasonably civil...and I bet all I will get is more parroting of the same crap. I hope I did a good job this time, PTL. Again sorry about the shitstorm lolz

Post edited at 1:13 pm on July 17, 2012 by iconoclast

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well, is it?

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Your second definition is what you practice, regardless of your denials. Do you really think you can mask it by claiming that "blacks are better at being blacks even though they have lower IQs"? Bullshit. You're a racist. You don't look at individuals and acknowledge accomplishments, you look at a group and classify them. It's not required that you "hate" them to be a racist, only that you separate them and quantify them based on "race". And you haven't denied that that's what you do.

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