Well, ask a guy with a fancy Libertarian manual in front of him anything. From pollution to regulation, hell I've got the answer to all your questions, hesitations and doubts.
------- This is an axiom.
8:09 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Aug. 2008 | Days Active: 497 Join to learn more about GmanXXVINew Jersey, United States | GayMale | Posts: 3,314 | Points: 8,611
Post edited at 8:17 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 by GmanXXVI
------- This is an axiom.
8:16 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Aug. 2008 | Days Active: 497 Join to learn more about GmanXXVINew Jersey, United States | GayMale | Posts: 3,314 | Points: 8,611
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
8:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: April 2011 | Days Active: 167 Join to learn more about Lyrical DeathDjibouti | Metrosexual | Posts: 11,814 | Points: 7,727
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 10:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Do you not understand how that works?
Post edited at 8:23 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 by Forever Angel
------- Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning how to dance in the rain "Work is not an end in itself; there must always be time enough for love."
8:22 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 2,647 Join to learn more about Forever AngelKansas, United States | Female | Posts: 55,345 | Points: 115,315
Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:22 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 10:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Do you not understand how that works?
Every libertarian response I've heard involves excess tolling which would restrict the traveler even more than high gas prices and tolls do now. As for outer space, I think Mitt Romney explains it best.
8:28 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: April 2011 | Days Active: 167 Join to learn more about Lyrical DeathDjibouti | Metrosexual | Posts: 11,814 | Points: 7,727
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 8:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Roads and bridges are not free, will not be free, and never have been free. The government would protect people's own real property (land) from being stolen by road developers (eminent domain).
EDIT: Oh, you mean outer space? If it's profitable it'll be done. I posted this earlier. Hell, it doesn't even need to be profitable. People are free to create their own organization with the goal of getting to the moon, and if you think that's something that should be done then go ahead and donate to them, like charity. Nobody would prevent you from giving moon-colonists money if you thought that was a good, albeit not-profitable expenditure.
Post edited at 8:36 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 by GmanXXVI
------- This is an axiom.
8:32 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Aug. 2008 | Days Active: 497 Join to learn more about GmanXXVINew Jersey, United States | GayMale | Posts: 3,314 | Points: 8,611
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 8:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Roads and bridges are not free, will not be free, and never have been free. The government would protect people's own real property (land) from being stolen by road developers (eminent domain).
I never claimed that roads and bridges would ever be free. However, they do have to be used by everyone, and you wouldn't have competition the way you'd have it in the rest of the private sector. The corporations who own the roads would essentially have monopolies and be able to charge what they want for you to use their roads, which would be an especially huge problem for long distance commuters. Besides, the idea of having toll roads all over urban areas is ridiculous.
8:38 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: April 2011 | Days Active: 167 Join to learn more about Lyrical DeathDjibouti | Metrosexual | Posts: 11,814 | Points: 7,727
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 8:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Roads and bridges are not free, will not be free, and never have been free. The government would protect people's own real property (land) from being stolen by road developers (eminent domain).
I never claimed that roads and bridges would ever be free. However, they do have to be used by everyone, and you wouldn't have competition the way you'd have it in the rest of the private sector. The corporations who own the roads would essentially have monopolies and be able to charge what they want for you to use their roads, which would be an especially huge problem for long distance commuters. Besides, the idea of having toll roads all over urban areas is ridiculous.
You're boxing yourself in here. Who says these would be toll roads? What makes you believe that there would be some monopoly--the very antithesis of the free market? (Also, I just got to the chapter that talks about easing the worries of people like you about monopolies, stand by for any new interesting insights )
EDIT: Also, did you see my edit of that last post?
Post edited at 8:44 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 by GmanXXVI
------- This is an axiom.
8:43 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Aug. 2008 | Days Active: 497 Join to learn more about GmanXXVINew Jersey, United States | GayMale | Posts: 3,314 | Points: 8,611
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 10:28 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:22 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 10:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Do you not understand how that works?
Every libertarian response I've heard involves excess tolling which would restrict the traveler even more than high gas prices and tolls do now. As for outer space, I think Mitt Romney explains it best.
If the people want, or understand that they need, 'roads and bridges', they will pay for them. Whether by funding a private contractor directly or through taxation. Contrary to what Obama says, the government doesn't build roads and bridges, they take taxpayer money and pay private contractors to "build that". The last time the government actually took the initiative in that respect was when Eisenhower was president and the Interstate Highway system was developed and built. Most "infrastructure" is locally based and built by local businesses. The federal government, naturally, has a hand in paying some of the costs, but that's because of the fuel taxes the feds collect from locally owned businesses.
Space, the final frontier... if an entrepreneur sees a way they think they can make money, they'll get involved.
------- Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... It's learning how to dance in the rain "Work is not an end in itself; there must always be time enough for love."
8:50 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 2,647 Join to learn more about Forever AngelKansas, United States | Female | Posts: 55,345 | Points: 115,315
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 8:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Roads and bridges are not free, will not be free, and never have been free. The government would protect people's own real property (land) from being stolen by road developers (eminent domain).
I never claimed that roads and bridges would ever be free. However, they do have to be used by everyone, and you wouldn't have competition the way you'd have it in the rest of the private sector. The corporations who own the roads would essentially have monopolies and be able to charge what they want for you to use their roads, which would be an especially huge problem for long distance commuters. Besides, the idea of having toll roads all over urban areas is ridiculous.
You're boxing yourself in here. Who says these would be toll roads? What makes you believe that there would be some monopoly--the very antithesis of the free market? (Also, I just got to the chapter that talks about easing the worries of people like you about monopolies, stand by for any new interesting insights )
EDIT: Also, did you see my edit of that last post?
I saw the last post, and it's still a bit far fetched to believe in the private sector to find incentive in funding space exploration for all to benefit from as opposed to simply establishing space tourism for the mega rich to spend money on (as Virgin is planning on doing). Any company or organization who has that kind of interest in space to increase exploration for science could have simply contributed tp NASA if profit incentive wasn't a factor, but I guess we'll see if the private sector goes anywhere with this now that NASA is shutting down its space program.
As for monopolies, I do believe they can be overcome in a free market society, but in the case of roads, there will (literally) be no way around them.
8:56 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: April 2011 | Days Active: 167 Join to learn more about Lyrical DeathDjibouti | Metrosexual | Posts: 11,814 | Points: 7,727
Praytell, how does this mystical evil 'monopoly' come about?
------- This is an axiom.
9:07 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Aug. 2008 | Days Active: 497 Join to learn more about GmanXXVINew Jersey, United States | GayMale | Posts: 3,314 | Points: 8,611
Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:50 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 10:28 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:22 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
Quote: from Lyrical Death at 10:20 pm on Aug. 4, 2012
What about infrastructure? Where in the private sector are you going to find a business that wants to spend their money on roads and bridges for everyone else to use? What about space?
Do you not understand how that works?
Every libertarian response I've heard involves excess tolling which would restrict the traveler even more than high gas prices and tolls do now. As for outer space, I think Mitt Romney explains it best.
If the people want, or understand that they need, 'roads and bridges', they will pay for them. Whether by funding a private contractor directly or through taxation. Contrary to what Obama says, the government doesn't build roads and bridges, they take taxpayer money and pay private contractors to "build that". The last time the government actually took the initiative in that respect was when Eisenhower was president and the Interstate Highway system was developed and built. Most "infrastructure" is locally based and built by local businesses. The federal government, naturally, has a hand in paying some of the costs, but that's because of the fuel taxes the feds collect from locally owned businesses.
Space, the final frontier... if an entrepreneur sees a way they think they can make money, they'll get involved.
Local governments do plenty to maintain their roads as opposed to hiring private contractors, and I still think it should remain that way. Whenever I see a pothole, or a sinkhole like this being repaired ( http://tinyurl.com/9xj6cx3 ), it's always by city workers, and while I do agree that unions cause these workers to be a lot lazier than they would be otherwise, I wouldn't want a private company whose gone through me in no way to have that kind of control over my daily commute.
9:07 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: April 2011 | Days Active: 167 Join to learn more about Lyrical DeathDjibouti | Metrosexual | Posts: 11,814 | Points: 7,727
if i owned a bigass factory, i'd pave roads so my trucks can ship out my goods to where they need to go. i would not charge for these roads, and i'd make more money building them myself than paying for truck repairs and spares due to fucked up roads.
if my roadbuilding causes good will among those benefiting from my roads, well, all the better, that's good publicity. i'm sure i can get other factories in the area to pitch in and help out.
this is how private roads develop. making expensive toll roads all over the place would make me the road equivalent of the grinch, and i'd likely go bankrupt from people simply boycotting me.
9:10 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: Aug. 2004 | Days Active: 1,236 Join to learn more about ApotheosisVenezuela | GLBT AllyMale | Posts: 21,545 | Points: 37,329
Praytell, how does this mystical evil 'monopoly' come about?
It's quite simple. The commuter (now customer in this sense) has no choice but to use the road which is now privately owned. When the local government manages the tolls, there's at least elections and a host of other good reasons to not rip the consumer off, especially since the profit incentive is purely for the public good. In the case where say Bank of America owns every road near you, they can charge you an insane amount of money that you'd have no choice to pay. There'd be no elected officials to get rid of and they have all the motivation in the world to charge as much money as they want.
9:12 pm on Aug. 4, 2012 | Joined: April 2011 | Days Active: 167 Join to learn more about Lyrical DeathDjibouti | Metrosexual | Posts: 11,814 | Points: 7,727
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