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Before the Holocaust. Most Jews were poor. Very poor. Nor were the 1.5 million kids "making money..."
It was Staanoc ideology, not about "money," anyhow.

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The Jews have a history in Europe of exploiting the gentiles and Germany was no exception. It makes perfect sense for the Germans to want to be self-governed without the influence of foreigners in their land, because most countries actually want this except nations with Jews in them. China doesn't open its arms to massive quantities of non-Chinese immigration, nor does Japan with non-Japanese. Furthermore, Israel doesn't want non-Jewish immigration either, yet Jews pushed for the diversifying of European nations more than any other group despite their small minority status.

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"The Jewish problem is one of the greatest problems in the world, and
no man, be he writer, politician or diplomatist, can be considered mature
until he has striven to face it squarely on its merits." - HW Steed

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the aryan supremacy was a thing that germany could unite itself over and used it as an excuse to start genocide through the propaganda.

hitler rose to power through the promise of economic growth and delivered that. by the time he started rolling out the war machines and attacking places, he was already just as powerful as a dictator and even if the citizens wanted to do anything about it... what could they do? the nazi police and spetznaz were smart as fuck and had spies looking for people guilty of treason everywhere, they would find out.

the holocaust was an idea borne through the snowball effect - small stuff first, gradually getting more and more fucked up - that created a storm of shitty, deplorable human extermination

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I think there is a point to be made regardless of the number of Jews killed. Most historians use the 6 million figure just as a number, passed down from historian to historian. However, we could replace '6 million' with 'a great many' as there is evidence that many people were killed in the Holocaust, furthermore, there is also evidence that the Germans went to great lengths to cover it up. So, I think historians would agree that it is impossible to put a figure on it, and the number that has been suggested can only ever be am educated guess in the best scenario.

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Is that why they dynamited the creamatoria at Majadanek but not the so-called "Gas chambers"?

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"The Jewish problem is one of the greatest problems in the world, and
no man, be he writer, politician or diplomatist, can be considered mature
until he has striven to face it squarely on its merits." - HW Steed

Even today, the holohoax is used as an excuse for the existence of Israel.

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Quote: from RandomThought at 6:45 pm on June 18, 2012

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I think there is a point to be made regardless of the number of Jews killed. Most historians use the 6 million figure just as a number, passed down from historian to historian. However, we could replace '6 million' with 'a great many' as there is evidence that many people were killed in the Holocaust, furthermore, there is also evidence that the Germans went to great lengths to cover it up. So, I think historians would agree that it is impossible to put a figure on it, and the number that has been suggested can only ever be am educated guess in the best scenario.

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Where's the evidence that the Germans went through great lengths to cover up their alleged war crimes?

Is that why they dynamited the creamatoria at Majadanek but not the so-called "Gas chambers"?

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All this demonstrates to me is that you deliberately ignore available evidence. There is consensus among many historians concerning the discovery of large amounts of human ash, hasty destruction of certain buildings. Which I believe is often explained by the fact that the Nazis left beginning the cover up, much to late and their army was in full retreat all over Europe.

I get that i'm not going to change your mind on this. I have no interest in having this debate with you. I have seen enough of the relation of the claims you make, the conclusions you draw and the facts to support it to know that a discussion in pointless. I have spoken at length on the fallacies involved in your reasoning.

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It's reasonable to say that the holocaust was invented, and the lie of 6 million Jews getting killed was invented, so that European Jews can mass migrate to Palestine seeking "refuge" , hence stealing Palestine and creating Israel.  

Even today, the holohoax is used as an excuse for the existence of Israel.

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Not really.
Its reasonable to say that the holocaust was used as a justification, perhaps wrongly, for the repatriation of European Jews to Palestine. But that was going on before the Holocaust was exposed, so your reasoning doesnt follow. That argument has never ceased to amaze me.

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Quote: from Ello at 12:06 am on June 19, 2012

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It's reasonable to say that the holocaust was invented, and the lie of 6 million Jews getting killed was invented, so that European Jews can mass migrate to Palestine seeking "refuge" , hence stealing Palestine and creating Israel.

 Even today, the holohoax is used as an excuse for the existence of Israel.

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Not really.
Its reasonable to say that the holocaust was used as a justification, perhaps wrongly, for the repatriation of European Jews to Palestine. But that was going on before the Holocaust was exposed, so your reasoning doesnt follow. That argument has never ceased to amaze me.

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I know that Zionism existed some decades before the so called "holocaust". This doesn't refute the fact that the holocaust lie contributed to the mass migration of European Jews into Palestine, leading up to the creation of Israel.

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I know that Zionism existed some decades before the so called "holocaust". This doesn't refute the fact that the holocaust lie contributed to the mass migration of European Jews into Palestine, leading up to the creation of Israel.

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The migration began almost twenty years before the discovery of the evidence for the Holocaust.
Jesus, why is holocaust denial the in-thing on lw nowadays?
So whats your evidence for the fact that the holocaust never happened?

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Quote: from Ello at 12:21 am on June 19, 2012

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 I know that Zionism existed some decades before the so called "holocaust". This doesn't refute the fact that the holocaust lie contributed to the mass migration of European Jews into Palestine, leading up to the creation of Israel.

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The migration began almost twenty years before the discovery of the evidence for the Holocaust.
Jesus, why is holocaust denial the in-thing on lw nowadays?  
So whats your evidence for the fact that the holocaust never happened?

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]All this demonstrates to me is that you deliberately ignore available evidence.

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There is consensus among many historians concerning the discovery of large amounts of human ash, hasty destruction of certain buildings. Which I believe is often explained by the fact that the Nazis left beginning the cover up, much to late and their army was in full retreat all over Europe.

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Further, there is no "Consensus" because there are plenty of revisionist historians and holocaust survivors who deny that there are mass graves as alleged, with good reason.

Large amounts of human ash? Where? What camp? Be specific.

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I get that i'm not going to change your mind on this. I have no interest in having this debate with you. I have seen enough of the relation of the claims you make, the conclusions you draw and the facts to support it to know that a discussion in pointless. I have spoken at length on the fallacies involved in your reasoning.

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Jesus, why is holocaust denial the in-thing on lw nowadays?

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So whats your evidence for the fact that the holocaust never happened?

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Well to start:

- Gas chambers at Auschwitz don't have significant iron-cyanide residue as they should from multiple alleged Zyclon-B gassings
- The failure to find and report evidence of one single mass grave at one single "Death Camp."
- The failure to find any evidence of mass graves despite multiple attempts at Treblinka, Belzec, Chelmno, and Sobibor (all "Death Camps")
- The absurdity of using Zyclon-B or diesel exhaust to gas people when better methods were available
- The multiple inconsistencies with the alleged Holocaust story and what actually happened
- Aerial photos of the camps during the "Final Solution" showed either alterations or no evidence of mass murder during the times in which it supposedly happened
- The use of torture and threats to obtain "Confessions" from Nazis for war crimes later found out that they didn't commit
- The fact that German documents show that the "Final Solution" was a plan of deportation, not mass extermination
- Not one single document ordering the gassing or extermination of Jews
- The allegation that millions of people can disappear without a trace and the illegality of looking for those alleged traces.
- The fact that some "Death camp" inmates openly deny any process of mass extermination of gassing
- No diagram or blueprints of a homicidal gas chamber linked to any of the alleged homicidal gas chambers
- No documents or recordings suggesting Zyclon-B be used for criminal purpose
- Inability for people to respond rationally to Holocaust skepticism, because the Holocaust is a religious belief and any belief on the contrary is "Anti-Semitic"

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"The Jewish problem is one of the greatest problems in the world, and
no man, be he writer, politician or diplomatist, can be considered mature
until he has striven to face it squarely on its merits." - HW Steed

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So instead of supporting your allegation you're just gonna give up?  
You can't deny the fact that through 2 excavations and 1 GPR search at Treblinka no "huge mass graves" or any mass graves for that matter are found. There is no published reports or photos of any alleged "Mass graves" at Treblinka. No evidence at all. Same for the other "Death Camps" too.  
Furthermore, the method of mass murder alleged (Gas chambers) seems to be baseless and inconsistent with the physical evidence.

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Like I saidignoring available evidence. Findings of human ash is a well documented fact. Tbh, I could go and quote a page number from a book I was reading last week, but I cant remember where I put it.  

I'm not against Holocaust revisionism, but revisionism does not necessitate the exposing of the Holocaust as a total hoax, because it isnt. I have looked into this and while you do raise some cogent points, they are clouded by the invalid conclusions that you draw from good evidence. Like I said in a previous topic, the reason why nobody take Holocaust denialists seriously, is because they shit all over good evidence, by fuelling their own prejudices. You seem to be no exception.

Post edited at 6:18 pm on June 18, 2012 by RandomThought

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Holocaust revisionism is becoming more and more popular all over the internet. In the past 3 years it has grown significantly in support. I brought the idea to Bud and he considered it strongly, same with NWO. Other people like abs and ello figured it out on their own.  

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Furthermore, you seem to be laboring under the illusion that all these people's views are consistent with your own. Take Bud for example. From what I can gather the only main point of argument there is the 6 million figure, which most people know to be a very shaky estimate. But even if you prove that number isnt correct. It does not prove that nobody died/the Holocaust was a hoax/ death camps didnt exist. It just proves that someone got the maths wrong.

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Like I saidignoring available evidence. Findings of human ash is a well documented fact. Tbh, I could go and quote a page number from a book I was reading last week, but I cant remember where I put it.  

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This girl I have no idea how she located any when the alleged mass graves at Treblinka are blocked off and covered with stones now.

And where is this "well documented fact" or findings of human ash? Post it. How much was found?

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I'm not against Holocaust revisionism, but revisionism does not necessitate the exposing of the Holocaust as a total hoax, because it isnt. I have looked into this and while you do raise some cogent points, they are clouded by the invalid conclusions that you draw from good evidence. Like I said in a previous topic, the reason why nobody take Holocaust denialists seriously, is because they shit all over good evidence, by fuelling their own prejudices. You seem to be no exception.

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