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Then again, you are one of the ones who have been attempting to spam the intellectual forum.

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Yep, you mofo.

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I just can't see how someone could equate an unformed little blob of cells with a baby. To my mind it just isn't anything but potential for human life.

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Slab: Jus' say 'AarrghaarrghpleeassennononoUGH'

What is life other than a blob of cells?

It could also be taken down to the level of prime matter just being molded via the demiurge...

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Quote: from Bud2400 at 10:07 pm on Dec. 10, 2005

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Could a pro-lifer please explain one thing to me?  

 Exactly how is a fetus alive in the way we are?  How would it feel bad to "die" if it was never conscious and really thinking?  Separate DNA, moving, etc. seem irrelevant to me when one can't even "feel" its own existance.  

 If anyone could convince me that they are just as alive as humans are, then I'd be an ardent pro-lifer.

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Actually, it's been proven that children in the womb, at very early stages of development (please don't ask me for figures as I can't quite remember them, but I do recall it being at a very early stage in the pregnancy), experience pain. Babies are in immense pain while being aborted, and it has even been reported that they are known to cry in the process (nobody likes pain, right?). It hurts me to think of this..

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Do you eat meat?

Did you know that animals are capable of feeling pain? Nobody likes pain, right?

Did you know that mothers are capable of experiencing pain? And crying? And dying during childbirth?

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What is life other than a blob of cells?

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Life to me is a mind and the ability to communicate. The body is nothing other than the organic sack that carries the mind around.

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Slab: Jus' say 'AarrghaarrghpleeassennononoUGH'

Then again in how many states is it illegal to have sex at the age of twelve?

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¡Vive la República de Tejas! ¡Libertad de los Estados Unidos de América! ¡Recuerden el Liberty y lo que los zionistas le hicieron!

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She made the choice to create that baby at the age of 12 did she not?  Who took their pants down and went at it?

Then again in how many states is it illegal to have sex at the age of twelve?

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Yes, I agree that she made that choice, but there is also the subject of rape/sexual abuse etc.

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If you ever do figure that difficult skill out, then you would see why what you just attempted to say is a load of bullcrap.

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¡Vive la República de Tejas! ¡Libertad de los Estados Unidos de América! ¡Recuerden el Liberty y lo que los zionistas le hicieron!

Yeah it's killing a child but it's ok because she was raped!

This shows that there is indeed a difference between fetuses and babies in your mind because I seriously doubt you'd be ok with killing a baby because the mother was raped.

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Slab: Jus' say 'AarrghaarrghpleeassennononoUGH'

Why bring another life into the mix and use it as a tool of punishment?  It seems absurd to me and almost devalues life, in my opinion.  Life, to me, is more than that and by aborting it before it has ever tasted life seems harmless as it has yet to exist in the first place (consciously, or have a soul; whatever you call it), therefore the only "pain" felt is to those who already exist.  

Obviously, human beings have the right to live.

Obviously, human beings have the right to control their body.

Those two precepts are non-debatable; they are important blocks of the foundation of modern Western society. Similarly, it's actually rare that these two precepts will conflict. The only situation I can think of, where they do, is pregnancy.

So there's only one question we need to ask: what is a human?

What seperates humanity from all other species? What makes us unique in this world, perhaps in this universe? How are we distinct from cockroaches and bacteria? What's the dividing line, there? Is it genetics? Consciousness, self-awareness? Intelligence? Use of tools, adaptability? Language? Religion, the presence of a soul?

That is the only question which strikes me as truly relevant to the debate on abortion. Once something is a human being, it would be a violation of those precepts to kill it.

But please, search for truth, not a way to just make more rhetoric. Don't look for the answer that proves you right, but actually be honest, and look for the answer that is most truthful. Unfortunately, there has yet to be an answer to this question that will satisfy all or, I suspect, even most, but we must try.

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I could never have an abortion, but I could also never ask the 12 year old who was raped to have the baby she was forced into carrying, and I could never ask a woman who used all available types of birth control and still got pregnant, despite being conscientious, and who is too poor to give the child a good life, and is against adoption, to give birth. It's not my decision to make for someone else, for it's her body, whether I agree with it or not. I cannot limit her rights.

I nearly choked on my water when you said plants can feel, by the way. You were kidding, right?

... I think your arguments themselves are pretty weak, not to mention pedantic and illogical.