First off I'd like to point out that this topic started life in the mod-centre - hence the large number of replies from staff. Some of my oldest LW friends are staff members here and they are generally a little older than the rest of the population (I'm not even the only one who is married nowadays) so I wanted to seek their advice first and also I didn't want to pour my heart out to the whole site just yet.

However as time goes by - very slowly - I find that I am getting if anything more desperate for help and support from anyone willing to read this and offer it. I am sorry it is so long. I know I write too much. Maybe later I'll come back and edit it a bit, but for now I'm just moving it.

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Wednesday, 30/04/2008 - Day 8

Okay, so several of you know at least some of this, and some of you know all of this, and all of you know nothing. I'm gonna start from the beginning and being very Markian (definition) (if only Kira were here) we'll get to the end at around tea-time.

ME == UBER UBER UPSET. No seriously. UBER.

Louise left me one week ago today. You all know that I saw her as some sort of saviour or at least the best thing that had ever happened to my life since ... ever. We have been together since we were 14 for God's sake. We did all that crap of getting away from home, taking her Dad to court, setting up in Brighton and going to uni... I told you all about it in the past. We have been through so much and I loved her to bits. And once upon a time she was excited to marry me and I her - back when I was more confident, outgoing, ambitious and viewed myself as more successful. We saw a happy future for us together.

So what happened? I was selfish. I didn't mean to be. I hope you all know me well enough to know that I am not a bad person at heart. I have my demons but I have always tried to use them to compel me to help others, to reach out to them and show them respect and love and understanding where I can. I have not  acted purposefully maliciously in my adult life. I hope you all know that.  

However, as I got further through Uni and had to think about getting a job I realised something that I didn't want to know: I am scared of other people. And so I started to isolate myself physically and spiritually from other people. I have been too proud to tell any of you this, however. I was also too busy hiding from it myself. I didn't want to admit that I was scared and I didn't want to admit why and so I built up lots of clever mental defences which basically manifested as more conservative political views and general misanthropy and cynicism. Since then it has got increasingly worse and over the last year/six months it has become really intense. I really didn't know anyone in Brighton any more because I isolated myself so much. My old personal tutor form Uni is about the only friend I still have. I have been hiding from work, from life and supplementing myself with 50mg (highest dose) of paroxetine (Paxil to Americans, Seroxat to Europeans) every day.

Like I said, my basic problems were:

1) I felt worthless. When I woke up in the morning I had to quickly bury the idea that it wasn't worth getting up because I really HATED myself. And with each day that I was selfish towards Louise of course I felt worse and compounded this feeling.

2) I am scared of people. I don't know why or how - but this one just gradually crept up on me and over took me. I feel like I always say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing and make an idiot of myself. I feel like they all look at me with disdain because the second they look at me they see the worthless and stupid person I am.

3) because of 1) and 2) I haven't had a job in all that time. Not one. Nada. I know it sounds lame but I have even had trouble just getting on the bus and going out and being around people like that. I always felt too self conscious.

I now it sounds so lame, but I have just done my best to avoid other people, to avoid life and to hide from my own feelings.  

Where does Louise come into this? Well basically you can imagine that I have been acting increasingly insecure and I have increasingly tried to control her and her life. I have been scared of losing her and scared that she doesn't love me. I have felt COMPLETELY unworthy of her and therefore have been scared of losing her. Of course with every day that my controlling behaviour went by I felt more guilty, more bad, more worthless and thus the cycle went downwards. I didn't have a life so I stopped her form having a life I felt worthless so it was up to her to CONSTANTLY tell me that she loved me, that she thought I was a decent person and that she thought I should get up in the morning. I couldn't get up for me so I got up for her. I couldn't live my life for me because I didn't like me one little bit, so I lived my life for her.

At Christmas we had an argument. She came out and told me she was so unhappy she was planning on leaving me. I was devastated and I also felt so incredibly sorry for her. I spent that whole night pacing up and down the street with her listening to all the things she needed. The next day we started a whole new life and throughout January it was like when we first moved to Brighton or when we were at school at first got engaged. But over the last couple of months things have slowly slipped back because I still couldn't get over those feelings of worthlessness and I have gone back to relying on her for my self esteem and trying to control her.

I know it's bad. I know I've ben stupid. I know it's all my own fault, but I really didn't MEAN to do it. I really just wanted to get through each day without having to face the self-loathing and the fear that was inside me. I just wanted to do that and she was there and she made it feel better. That's as simple as it gets - she was there and she made it feel better.

I guess that basically she has seen things go back to how they were at the end of last year though. She saw me having second thoughts about going for therapy. She saw me becoming absorbed in my own feelings and my own fear and she once again felt neglected and controlled and lonely so she decided that the only way to deal with the situation was to change it completely by leaving.

Last Wednesday she sent me an email from work saying she wasn't coming home she was leaving. She wasn't mean. SHe just said she didn't want to be controlled any more and she couldn't handle having to take responsibility for my life any more. She couldn't handle being responsible for my lack of self worth, she couldn't take the way I hid my fear of the world behind cynicism and sarcasm and she had to get out.

I immediately panicked and started trying to phone her but she had changed her cell already. I went to her workplace but she had gone home early. I left two short letters under the dor that I wrote on the bus. I spent £10 of mobile phone credit ringing her answerphone at work and leaving messages. At home, I got the new packet of Stanley knife blades I have here and I seriously considered just going to the bathroom and cutting my wrists.

Somehow I managed to get to sleep having convinced myself I'd be able to get to see her before work the next morning. I woke up nice and early and arrived there plenty before her but I didn't see her. I left her a third note. I walked around for half an hour and then tried again - she was there but I didn't even see her because her co-worker sent me away at the door.

She's been stonewalling me ever since. I don't know the address of the particular friend she's staying with. I don't even know her surname, so there's no finding her number or ANYTHING. Lou's changed her cell. I have no way of speaking to her. She left me £50 in our bedside cabinet with a pay-as-you-go SIM card for my phone (the old phones were on a contract she paid for). I spent £25 of it leaving messages for her on her work answer machine and another £2 of change on a public phone in case she was using call-ID. Nada. On Friday I got that personal tutor who I told you was my only friend to take her a letter. I tried ringing her in the morning but her co-worker works mornings and she was guarding the phone. In the afternoon I left some more messages begging her to just tell me it was worth getting through the weekend - that there was still some hope for us if I sorted out my life. Nada. I tried ringing and cutting it off before the answerphone cut in and then ringing again so the phone was ringing constantly for about 25 minutes while I was on the bus. Nada. That's the last time I tried to contact her.

Every day I have thought about suicide. Seriously. Particularly when I wake up in the morning. I used to get too hot in bed with her - I used to call her my personal storage heater. Every day now I wake up *freezing* in bed, shaking. I even sleep with my clothes on to try and keep warm. Not that I am sleeping. I'm up until 5am and then I crash for a few hours.  

I haven't eaten in a week. I've lost half a stone. I haven't even drunk any tea.  

I keep dragging myself through each day, trying to do little things like apply for jobs, talk to people here at LW, offer them advice. I feel like such a hypocrite. Who am I to be offering advice? I drag myself through and hope that if I can just sort my life out then she'll come back, but then I think to myself how pointless it is. She's too hurt. She hates me. She's not coming back. I've ruined the one good thing that ever happened to me.

I don't see the point in me without her. What the fuck good is Mark Winters without Louise? What's the point.

David asked me to treat myself for the next month with the same kindness and respect that I'd always shown him and our members. He deserves it though. I don't.

Post edited at 8:33 am on May 7, 2008 by britishguy

So I need to vent again. It's 1300. I managed to get to bed at a reasonable time (midnight) last night after staying up until 0500 the last couple of nights. I made the heating come on at 0530 and still at 0830 I was cold and shaking. It took me ages to get myself together so I could type and stuff.

I really want to phone her again. It's been a week tomorrow that I even tried to contact her. I spent the first two and a half days just sending her emails, leaving her messages, and I left her two short letters under her office door at work and then got a mutual friend to hand her another longer one.

The longer letter explained how I take responsibility for letting her down, for neglecting her, and most importantly for not taking responsibility for my problems and facing them in a constructive way. I then went on to show her all the things I am doing (which I can add to now, after another week) to try and sort my life out. It asked her to a joint counselling session on Monday. She never came.

So now it's been a week tomorrow since I even tried. I SO BADLY want to phone her to ask her to meet me for coffee in town and talk or something. I don't want to be rejected again though. I don't want to stonewall again. I don't want her to ignore me or put the phone down on me. I don't know if I could take that.

But it's a holiday weekend this weekend in the UK - Mayday - and I don't want to go all weekend thinking of her having fun without knowing if she'll ever talk to me again.

Am I rushing it? Do I give her more time? How the fuck long do I have to wait?

All her stuff is still here. Someone said that they think that's an unconscious sign she wants to come back. She literally only took her work clothes she was wearing that day and her important documents like her birth certificate, etc. I mean she left her cuddly toys - ALL of them, even her favourite one - her bunny rabbit (see my image basket for photos), her books, her photos, EVERYTHING. The thing that worries me is that we've done this before. When we left home we just filled a van with as much stuff as we could carry and off we went. What if she's doing that again with me now? Someone said the other night they don't think a person could do that twice in their lives, but I don't know....  

She HAS to talk to me sometime doesn't she?

Post edited at 8:33 am on May 7, 2008 by britishguy

I hope some of that helps. If not, I truly hope someone else has something wiser to say to get you through this. The absolute last thing anyone needs is for you to start buying into the idea that it's not worth getting up in the morning. If nothing else, there are always people here who are willing to hear you out, who care what you have to say, and who will do what little we can.

Post edited at 6:45 am on May 1, 2008 by Prince o palities

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Signature pending.

I guess that the only thing to say is that there IS life after Louise. The sun will rise and set and the Earth will keep turning and life will go on, yadda yadda yadda. The world doesn't stop just because she left.

I think you deserve respect because you've realised what you did wrong. I remember when I was very little and one of my dad's friends came over to our house. His wife had just left him and he was amazingly upset and had absolutely no idea what to do. He kept saying that he'd been lovely to her, that he didn't know why she'd left, that he'd been phoning and calling and emailing and ringing all her friends and he couldn't find her...my parents just made sympathetic noises. A while later, though, we found out the whole story: he'd been beating her and verbally abusing her. She'd left because she wasn't physically or emotionally safe when she was with him...and he had absolutely no idea what he'd done. He genuinely didn't understand.

I find it hard to respect someone like that because he didn't even realise his own mistake. I think that the one thing that's glaringly, blindingly obvious from your post, though, is that you realise that. You realise it and a half. That deserves respect: we all have regrets, and living with them ain't fun, but at least you've got the courage to look them in the face and give it a go, rather than staying in denial and never facing up to it. You didn't mean to hurt her, you didn't mean to drive her away, but you did and that's something you have to live with.

I think that what Sean said about making yourself better for her rather than getting her to make you better is absolutely 110% right. She might not come back, ever. That's a sad and unfortunate fact. However, you can still avoid doing the same thing to someone else or even to yourself. You don't need someone or something else to make things better: you can do that yourself, just by making the little bit of effort you are at the moment.

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You love me because I like daffodils because they are yellow
But I do not like daffodils because they are yellow

1) Thank-you to those of you (most, if not all I suspect because you're great guys) who have taken the time to read it. I know it's A LOT. I know I go on. I had a lot to explain and like I say, I also seriously needed to VENT.

2) Thank you you two for replying. I know it's horrible trying to reply to something so long, and you are absolute stars for doing so.  

PoP, I certainly don't mind advice. I NEED to know what other people think. I WANT opinions and evreything.

Fern, I don't mind that you don't really know me or weren't here when Lou was and I was going on about her. I think the tome above says enough for you to get the idea.

@Fern:

Thanks. Yes I know what I did wrong. I did treat her badly, and I know I have hurt her very much. I know that you should never try and control a person, let alone someone you love, and I have made a lot of mistakes in that regard as well as leaning too hard on her for support. My main shame comes from the fact that I'm not stupid. I was aware of what I was doing, but at the same time depression really had my mind screwed up and all I could think about was getting through the days without the pain of hating myself. Ultimately I was selfish and chose the pain of making myself feel better at her expense.

@Sean:

Yes. You are not the first person to say it. Everyone in fact says to me I must live for myself. I must live for me. Scott told me I "have to look after the Mark now" and David told me to show myself kindness and respect. Jane (the personal tutor I mentioned) told me to get myself sorted out and be kind to myself. Everyone keeps telling me this.  

Beth told me that I shouldn't live my life for one person, that Louise is not the be-all and end all of existence. And I look around and I see you guys, most of whom are fine with being single and many of whom are happy with themselves as people with lives ahead of you and I just think what the fuck is wrong with me?

I knew I didn't like myself but it wasn't until she started to talk about leaving at Christmas that I realised what has been happening to me the past couple of years. I loathe me. I mean I have run from this for so long now and now Louise is gone I am left with me 24/7.

You know I can't even sit down and play a videogame for my own enjoyment?

I have quite a few unplayed Xbox games (yes, old Xbox - I can't afford a 360 and I never played all these old games either anyway thanks to being busy with Uni at the time) and I just can't do it. I just don't see the point in sitting down and playing a game without Louise.  I don't see the point in watching a movie on my own, in playing a game on my own in even fucking sleeping on my own. I can't seem to do anything just for ME. God I'm so fucking lame.  

Like I say, I've lost 1/2 a stone (7 pounds for you Yanks) in a week. Granted I need to lose some serious weight but again - I can't cook just for me and I can't go down the sea for a hike everyday to lose some weight just for me. I just cannot get myself to do anything for the sake of being nice to me.

Sean, you say I have to want her more that I need her. Well I think I've made it plainly obvious to everyone here that I need her right now. I'd love to be able to cope without her. I'd love to be able to cope with being single and maybe finding someone else. But I don't even seem to be able to do the slightest thing for me. I am so fucking lame. What is wrong with me?

I just WISH I could see the point in a life for my own good. I feel so utterly inadequate.

Post edited at 8:34 am on May 7, 2008 by britishguy

You've convinced yourself that you need her, and I'm not sure how to help you break out of that, but until you do, you're stuck in this depressive limbo.

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Signature pending.

I understand what it's like to have low self esteem and confidence sometimes, but always remember that someone is with you or sharing your life because they WANT to be there, not because they HAVE to be there.  It's because of you she's wanted to share her life with you, and it's because of the person you are she's considered you so special.  No matter how low or insecure you get, you never have to doubt that, because it's obvious.

Firstly, you need to stop stalking her.  The more you do it, the more she will feel that you're desperate, clingy and it was scare her to go back.  She never intended to leave permanently, that's why all of her stuff is still there, I am sure.  So, I think you over reacted. Which is easy for me to say, but it seems it to me.

What you need to do is prove you have realised that you did was wrong, and actually change your life now. Live your life, right from now, the way you would if she was there.  Smarten yourself back up, get your hair cut, get things back on track, clean the house and get outside!  I know it's hard to battle those demons, and to feel brave when inside you feel scared, but you have to try.  

I'm sure, once she starts seeing you getting on with your life, sorting things out and getting things back on track, she will be in touch soon enough.  She will have her spy's keeping an eye on you, and all this will get back to her, trust me.  

I know you're depressed and I know it's hard. But how badly do you want her back?  Because I know, if I knew you were just sitting, not doing anything, losing weight and depressed, why would I want to go back to that?

So go on, get moving and get changing. You have to do this, because she means everything to you. If you love her that much, you can show her by changing and demonstrating how important she is.  

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Fine
Ignore me today, if you want to
But, tomorrow I may be the only friend you got
And I won't be there for you

I got to speak to her yesterday. It had been a day short of a week since I last tried so I phoned just to see if she'd answer. I wasn't going to leave a message if she didn't.  

At first she was UBER defensive, but then for about 15 minutes she sounded really pleased and really impressed and proud of all the changes I am making in my life despite how crap I feel. She was encouraging, warm and receptive. I sounded positive and possibly even excited. She said it was good that I felt excited about something for the first time in so long (I ahve ofetne spoken to her about how hard I find it to be positive).

Then I told her I still loved her and I asked her if there was any chance of any hope some day for us, and she said "no."

I asked if she could ever see us going to Relate (marriage guidance counselling) one day and she said "no."

In fact she said she couldn't even ever see us meeting for coffee right now.  

I asked why. She said she was "hurt and angry".

I said she must love me to have stuck by me through so much. She said I was entitled to my opinion, but her self confidence was shattered and she thinks she did it because she didn't think she deserved any better.

We ended the call without any tears and quite calmly.

I phoned back half an hour later to say two more quick things I needed to get off my chest and forgot to ask earlier. The first was that I was sorry and I felt awful for her. I said that she had none of her things - none of her comforters - and she said "You'd be surprised how little I miss" - which really hurt. I mean she has things I have made her with my own two hands, she has comforters like her cuddly toys, she has her pets, we have a whole life here that we built together and she turns round and says I'd be surprised how little she misses? I can't get that out of my head. It's been going round all night and into this morning and I can't stop thinking about it. It's horrible.

I also asked her to try and remain open to the possibility that at some point in the future we might be able to work things out - we ARE married after all. She said she would try. I asked if she thought that was reasonable, she said it was reasonable - implying that she didn't feel it was possible though, no matter how reasonable the request might be.

The interesting thing is though that when she answered this time I said "I know you're feeling hurt and angry, so I really won't take up more than a couple more minutes". She replied by saying "You don't know how I feel - I don't know how I feel so there's no possible way you can." Well she said only half an hour before that she felt hurt and angry. So is there some tiny possible chance that my phone call and my demeanour and the mere indication that maybe I was trying to sort myself out so soon after she left really threw her and she started to question, just a little bit, how she felt about me? I know she was expecting me to just crumble and do none of this for weeks....

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So, today (Friday, 02/05/2008 - Day 9).

I felt suicidal twice yesterday. Worst since a few days. I actually sat here with the blades toying with them and saying to Beth how pointless it all seems and how I REALLY just wanted it all to end. I feel the same this morning.  

I just don't see a point in a life without her. I just don't see the point in carrying on.  

She's said there's no hope for anything ever - she said "I now it's not what you want to hear, but I don't want to get your hopes up". She'd said that's it. Is there any chance she's still just too raw to even consider it and in time she might cool off and change her mind? Or am I fucked? Is this it? The end? Because if it is, then I feel like it should be the end of ME.

I am DRAGGING myself kicking an screaming through the days. I was up until 5am again yesterday and I've only had a few hours sleep. I was falling asleep at the computer.  

I have a flat full of her stuff which she doesn't seem to care about. So many lovely things we bought and shared, and things I bought and gave her and even made her (like a cuddly penguin I made her from scratch).  So much love in every one of them. And now what? I have to throw them away like garbage?

I want to die. I wish I could stop needing her back. I wish I could just stop it. I'm so stupid. I can't bear life without her.  I'm so lame, so useless. It physically hurts and I just don't see the point in some crappy life of my own where nothing will compare to waking up and seeing her in the morning.

Please give me some help to keep going?

Post edited at 8:34 am on May 7, 2008 by britishguy

Regardless of the outcome, you are worth something.  I've seen how much you can care about other people, and form positive relationships, myself one of the people you have managed to make very fond of you.  Sometimes people get selfish and distracted and make negative progress in relationships, but there is always hope--whether Louise can once again see how great you are, if someone else sees that, or, best of all, if you are capable of seeing it yourself.

<3

Well she said "reasonable" in such a way as to imply it was reasonable but not possible.

I think I have just really hurt her. I mean I had no idea I had "shattered" her self confidence or that she was only staying with me because she felt she didn't deserve better. I really tried to show her I loved her. We had affection still, and gave each other presents and even had a nice holiday full of walks together only about six weeks ago. We went on long walks and talked about random stuff and she seemed to have a nice time. I find it so hard to think she was only staying because of her "shattered" self confidence. I have no doubt that inside she still wasn't happy - don't get me wrong - but I think that she still had some hope at that point, at least. I really thought she loved me. Now she seems to be doing everything she can to convince herself she never did.

This weekend is a holiday weekend. I hate the thought that she's out there having fun, enjoying her life, while I'm sitting here feeling miserable. But Mark Winters doesn't see the point in doing anything on his own. He only likes going out with Louise.

I really feel like it's time to give up. There's nowhere left for my life to go.

Post edited at 8:35 am on May 7, 2008 by britishguy

I'm going to spam my own topic. I have had AN ABSOLUTELY CRAP day today. David said tomorrow will be brighter. It was worse. I have just not known what to do today. I FEEL SO LONELY. I just want to die. I am pacing around this flat like a caged animal. I want to speak to her. I want to hold her. I just don't want to be alone right now I wish I could go out tonight. I wish I had some friends. I wish I could do something this weekend with some friends. Louise is going to be enjoying the holiday weekend - probably going down to the beach with her friends. WE should be doing that. WE always do something special on holiday weekends. And now it's going to be MONTHS before I can even spend time alone with her and who knows if I will ever get to hold her or kiss her or touch her again.

I just want to die.. I wish I had been run over by a bus. I wish I could do something nice for myself to ease the pain a bit.

I can't bring myself to go for a walk by the sea - Lou and I did that so often with a flask of tea and a couple of home-baked scones.

I can't bring myself to watch a movie. Lou and I watched movies regularly because she had a DVD postal rent service. They make me think of sitting with her but she's not there.

I can't play a video game. I have loads unplayed but I used to play them with Louise. What's the point without her?

I can't read. I can't concentrate. Besides, most of my books she bought me.

I can't sleep - the bedroom is full of her and I can't bear to change it because it's like saying good-bye.

I can't eat. I cooked for her. I made all the meals. I can't cook for myself. What's the point. I don't want to eat. It feels too lonely. I bet she's enjoying nice food with her friends.

I just want to cry. And die.

Post edited at 7:53 am on May 7, 2008 by britishguy

First of all, let's set a few things as a premise I see so far about how you feel, and the situation at hand.

As I see it, this is not so much about her, as it is about you.

As hard as that is to accept you're beating yourself up because of guilt. You're beating yourself up because you failed at something, and that failure is glaring you right in the face, you couldn't rightly keep someone happy, someone you cared for, someone you loved and desired the world for, someone you believe you cared for more then yourself.

You concsciously used your feelings of self-loathing and self-pity to try and manipulate her to accept and love you, for recognition.

Please don't blame yourself for these actions, you did them yes, and you should accept that as part of being personally accountable, but that doesn't mean you should beat yourself up about it, as how does punishing yourself actually accomplish change?

From what I've found, it doesn't frankly, and it let's you eventually keep your same behaviours, even if they are negative, because you reach a stage of self-righteous hypocrisy where you believe that punishing yourself is actually a form of redemption, a penance. Punishing yourself for this in fact even further reinforces a negative belief about yourself. The one in question being that you feel you are a worthless creature. That is a very cyclical process, and I can relate.

How do you break that cycle of negative guilt and self-hate?

For me (and I'm still wrestling with it, as I think I will all my life)    now that I'm concsiously aware that I have this the question becomes -- how does it serve me?

We can conclude that every belief we have in some way helps or protects us from risk. Believing we can't do anything without another would seem very much a protective belief. So then it is a matter of concsiously deciding if it is worth it or not.
That is your deciscion to make.

Once you realize what you want, to do for yourself, about yourself, rather then unconcsciouly let  the negative belief about self hold. Then and only then you can strive to change it. Which you seem to be starting to do with being able to even get out of  bed every morning and writing on the computer, or taking the bus.

Give yourself positive encouragement where you deserve it, and rightly said, a lot of us seem to think you deserve rather large amounts of it, because as you previously said you've not done anything maliciously.

Now a few other things which might seem radical, or ... weird.

Louise feelings about you, aren't "about" you.
This is stemming from the idea that Eleanor Roosevelt said that no one can hurt you, except without your permission. You decide (however unconsciously) how to react to a given stimuli, and so does Louise.
The idea is observing how you react conscious to these given stimuli and analyzing whether or not they are actually self-destructive or positive, in your opinion, and if it is self-destructive, we go back to what is it worth to you.

Many of our judgements are based on thinking and choosing from what seems to be the lesser of two evils.
Your current example would be "shall I continue trying to stalk her and push her away" or "should I give her time to deal with everything."
To me, with the information at hand, someone will always, even unconsciously choose the "lesser of two evils" that they have at hand. The fact that you don't know about the other options that may bemoan you later, at the time is irrelevant, because you are automatically doing the best you can by choosing that which seems the best for you, in the moment. Despite what may show in the future. It would seem almost silly to blame yourself on the choices you make in the moment based on what you percieve as a lack of information. Doing that is setting up negative repetitive cycles for everything in your life, so acknowledging that you did the best you could in the moment would, I think be a large step for you.

As Sean said to you about the perception shift, except I'm going to phrase it a little differently you have a choice to make about whether it is worth it to you or not about continung to live your life from a self-victimizing position, or from a personal accountable position and a desire to change.

Erg, I've written a lot, and I definately feel as if it is a bit... all over the place and not necessarily coherent. I hope you don't take this information personally, or what I mean being... offended by it, as it wasn't meant to offend, but I hope you take it to heart. Don't blame yourself for everything that has occured. Her leaving was a result of her emotions, and you didn't cause that, it is her (perhaps unconscious) reaction, she can also be personally accountable for herself.

I'm... still going through this process myself, so I can't claim to know everything and let me say, I relate to this. Or at least what I feel is the undercurrent of self-loathing and fear. We can try and deal with it together if you want. I am here for you, as I'm sure the rest of the team is as well. Drop a PM by anytime. We can talk, I'd urge it, but it is your choice.

Thanks for reading, and I sincerely hope I helped.

You are worthy.

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Finally a future.

The problem I guess that I perceive is that if I stop living my life from a self victimising position then I will never see her again.. If I stop caring about whether she comes back and enjoy life on my own then I will never know the happiness of having her here and going out with her and doing all the [i]good things (and there were lots of those in amongst the crap, despite what she's no doubt telling her friends right now) we once did.[/i] I will be confining myself to a life of second best, to a life of no Louise. Now maybe in a year I would HAVE to make that decision, but for the time being I feel like the only thing I can do is carry on as I am and hope to get her back, feeling that everything in life is inadequate in the mean time, or die, which would mean never seeing her again also. So I have chosen the only option that involves getting  her back. And it sucks because it's so painful

I feel sick whenever I think of her today. All I can think of is the way she said "no" so many times. All I can think of is the way her friends will all be telling her she's better off without me and the way she'll be telling them all the crap that went in on our marriage, taking it out of context and making it sound so much worse than it actually is.

I mean we were married for fuck's sake. I know that doesn't mean much to a lot of people nowadays, but it meant a lot to me. And okay, I let her down, I neglected my part of the relationship, but we are still married (though God knows for how much longer - every day I fear getting divorce papers through the door) and I feel like I deserve a second chance if I can sort my life out and get over my illness and get back in control of the person I was when we married (and I was considerably happier).

I know I sound like a spoilt child, but she did agree to marry me, for better or worse. Well this is the worse. We're supposed to get through it - even if that means some time apart to sort ourselves out - I shouldn't have to worry about losing her while I get my life back on track. I shouldn't have to worry about her going off with another guy in a couple of months just to show me its over or just because she's done such a good job of putting me out of her mind and convincing herself she didn't love me. But right now I feel like if I make it through the next couple of months then I am going to find myself sitting here with her with another guy just to show me that it really is over and just to show herself that she can do better and I will be miserable and starting the process of loss all over again because my hope has been destroyed. And I will feel then like the only option is suicide and basically I'll be back at square one.

I just can't bear to think of it all. I can't bear to think of they way she said no. I feel sick and a cold shiver runs through me. And when I wake up in the morning after dreaming of her I lose her all over again as I realise she's not there and probably won't be ever again.  

I wish I had the guts to kill myself, I really do, but it's getting plainly obvious that I don't and I'm just going to sit here and moan. I'm such a fucking coward.

Post edited at 8:35 am on May 7, 2008 by britishguy

I wish you luck mate, you're a good man and it sounds like your starting to doubt it yourself, asking for some kind of validation from us. Everyone has their vices, fear of the population is not one to hate yourself over, especially right now, when, as you've said, you're all you've really got.

You can take control of your life, and that has to be enough. Square yourself away and maybe you'll be able to square everything else away.

My only advice is this. Things do not get better with time. If you have a problem, the sooner you deal with it the better. Time does not heal all wounds, it just helps you forget them and encourages a sort of depressing submission.

Get through your shit britishguy, not living is not an option, it's a coward's way out and really shows a lack of foresight. Living has a lot to offer, so does living well.

If she's gone, she's gone. Fight for her if that's what you want to do. Don't ever not do something just because of the fear of failure.

That's all I've got say man.