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Hoo boy. This was embarrassing to read.

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 3:00 am on July 1, 2008

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Homosexuality is unnatural-Christian  
 Homosexuality has been frequently observed in the wild-science

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Where does the Bible say that homosexuality is unnatural? The strictest interpretations say that homosexual sex is a sin, but they also say that many "natural" things are sins.  

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The Earth was created in 6 days and is only 6,000 years old-Christianity  
 The Earth did not form in only six days and is over 4 billion years old-science

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Where does the Bible say that the Earth is only 6000 years old? The strictest literal interpretations of Genesis say that the Earth hwas created in 6 days, but where does the Bible say anything about the age of the Earth?  

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Adam and Eve were the first humans and there is no evolution-Christianity  
 Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor-science

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Where does the Bible say that there is no evolution?

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The Earth is flat-Christianity  
 The Earth is a globe-science

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Where does the Bible say that the Earth is flat?

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The solar system is geo-centric-Christianity  
 The planets orbit around the sun-science

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Where does the Bible say that the solar system is geo-centric?

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That is a sample of some of them.

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Not quite, and it's not even a nice try.

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Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. -- Leviticus 18:22  - An abomination could be associated with the word unnatural

Adam/Eve 4000bc - Jesus 000AD +2000 = Current time. Therefor 6000 years give or take a few.

The above evidence and the bible conflicts with evolution. 6000 years is very small on an evolutionary scale, we would not have been able to evolve into what we are today in that small time frame. How would Adam and Eve evolved if they were simply created by god? Why would evolution be necessary if this all powerful god has the power to create us in his image?

Some examples of a supposed Geo-centric/Flat Earth by the bible.
"Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."
"Thus saith the Lord: Heaven is my throne, and the earth my footstool."
"Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."
   1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."

   Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..."

   Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."

   Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."

   Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."

I suppose it all comes down to how you interpret the bible, it constantly contradicts itself again and again if it is taken literally and there all you can say is it comes down to how you interpret it. Please share with me how you interpret the above examples, and what they mean to you?

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Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. -- Leviticus 18:22 - An abomination could be associated with the word unnatural

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abomination - anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.

unnatural - contrary to the laws or course of nature.

Try again.

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Adam/Eve 4000bc - Jesus 000AD +2000 = Current time. Therefor 6000 years give or take a few.

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Where does the Bible say "4000 BC" specifically as the time in which Adam and Eve were created? Furthermore, where does the Bible say how long they were in the garden before they ate of the fruit and started aging?

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The above evidence and the bible conflicts with evolution. 6000 years is very small on an evolutionary scale, we would not have been able to evolve into what we are today in that small time frame. How would Adam and Eve evolved if they were simply created by god? Why would evolution be necessary if this all powerful god has the power to create us in his image?

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Why wouldn't He? Furthermore, you've shown no evidence, only speculation.

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Some examples of a supposed Geo-centric/Flat Earth by the bible.
"Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."
"Thus saith the Lord: Heaven is my throne, and the earth my footstool."
"Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."
  1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."

  Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..."

  Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."

  Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."

  Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."

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Everything you have used as an example is what is known as "poetic language." It's imagery. It's not meant as a way of saying "the earth is the center of the universe." It is simply meant to describe things as they seem. If I say, "people come to the Olympic games from all four corners of the earth," does that mean that I actually think that the earth has four corners?

This isn't rocket science, people.

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I suppose it all comes down to how you interpret the bible, it constantly contradicts itself again and again if it is taken literally and there all you can say is it comes down to how you interpret it. Please share with me how you interpret the above examples, and what they mean to you?

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Already did. Your interpretations are accepted by pretty much no one except for people who want to make the Bible look like something it's not.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Hoo boy. This was embarrassing to read.  

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 3:00 am on July 1, 2008

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Homosexuality is unnatural-Christian
Homosexuality has been frequently observed in the wild-science

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Where does the Bible say that homosexuality is unnatural? The strictest interpretations say that homosexual sex is a sin, but they also say that many "natural" things are sins.

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The Earth was created in 6 days and is only 6,000 years old-Christianity
The Earth did not form in only six days and is over 4 billion years old-science

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Where does the Bible say that the Earth is only 6000 years old? The strictest literal interpretations of Genesis say that the Earth hwas created in 6 days, but where does the Bible say anything about the age of the Earth?

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Adam and Eve were the first humans and there is no evolution-Christianity
Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor-science

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Where does the Bible say that there is no evolution?  

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The Earth is flat-Christianity
The Earth is a globe-science

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Where does the Bible say that the Earth is flat?  

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The solar system is geo-centric-Christianity
The planets orbit around the sun-science

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Where does the Bible say that the solar system is geo-centric?  

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That is a sample of some of them.

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Not quite, and it's not even a nice try.

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I suppose that was an assumption on my part.

I, not being a Christian, would not know the location of that verse. I would believe it would be in Genesis.

If Adam and Eve were the first humans, then evolution would have been impossible, since they were created by god, and not evolved. Also, the Bible makes no mention of evolution, which is because it accepts creationism as it's only explanation for the origins of life.

This one has evolution stuff and geocentriciy.

http://hypertextbook.com/eworld/geocentric.shtml

Here are some examples of geocentricity verses.

http://www.geocentricity.com/publications/geobible_3.pdf

Post edited at 6:58 pm on July 1, 2008 by nigeltheoutlaw

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Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

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I suppose that was an assumption on my part.

I, not being a Christian, would not know the location of that verse. I would believe it would be in Genesis.

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http://www.biblegateway.com I'll wait.

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If Adam and Eve were the first humans, then evolution would have been impossible, since they were created by god, and not evolved.

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I'm still waiting for you to show me how "created by God" and "evolved" are necessarily contradictory.

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Also, the Bible makes no mention of evolution, which is because it accepts creationism as it's only explanation for the origins of life.

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Or possibly because the Bible was never written to be a science book, but rather a history (both mythological and actual) of the Hebrews.

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This one has evolution stuff and geocentriciy.

http://hypertextbook.com/eworld/geocentric.shtml

Here are some examples of geocentricity verses.

http://www.geocentricity.com/publications/geobible_3.pdf

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And this is just sheer ignorance. As I said before, these verses are making use of poetic language. If I said, "People will come to the Olympics from all four corners of the earth," it is a metaphor, not a statement of the earth being square and flat. The same is true in these verses, most of which come from books of poetry to begin with: the writer is using imagery to describe what something looks like, not how it actually is.

This isn't a complicated concept, which is why I'm always surprised at how people seem to miss it entirely. Willful ignorance, I'd say.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 9:30 pm on July 1, 2008

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I suppose that was an assumption on my part.

I, not being a Christian, would not know the location of that verse. I would believe it would be in Genesis.

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http://www.biblegateway.com I'll wait.

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If Adam and Eve were the first humans, then evolution would have been impossible, since they were created by god, and not evolved.

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I'm still waiting for you to show me how "created by God" and "evolved" are necessarily contradictory.  

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Also, the Bible makes no mention of evolution, which is because it accepts creationism as it's only explanation for the origins of life.

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Or possibly because the Bible was never written to be a science book, but rather a history (both mythological and actual) of the Hebrews.

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This one has evolution stuff and geocentriciy.

http://hypertextbook.com/eworld/geocentric.shtml

Here are some examples of geocentricity verses.

http://www.geocentricity.com/publications/geobible_3.pdf

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And this is just sheer ignorance. As I said before, these verses are making use of poetic language. If I said, "People will come to the Olympics from all four corners of the earth," it is a metaphor, not a statement of the earth being square and flat. The same is true in these verses, most of which come from books of poetry to begin with: the writer is using imagery to describe what something looks like, not how it actually is.  

This isn't a complicated concept, which is why I'm always surprised at how people seem to miss it entirely. Willful ignorance, I'd say.

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I had already looked on biblegateway. Which book should I look in on the scrolldown?

Creationism and evolution are contradictory because creationism says that the flora and fauna have always been the same and never change. They stayed the same as god created them.  

If the bible was simply a history of the Hebrews, then there should be no mention of how the Earth was created, the origins of life, or anything like that. It should only be concerned with the history of the Hebrews.

Poetic langauge? Then why is it that in the past Christians (the majority, prior to sceintific developments) thought the world was flat if it was simply an example of poetic langauge?

Post edited at 3:37 pm on July 2, 2008 by nigeltheoutlaw

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Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

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I had already looked on biblegateway. Which book should I look in on the scrolldown?

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I don't know. What are you looking for?

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Creationism and evolution are contradictory because creationism says that the flora and fauna have always been the same and never change. They stayed the same as god created them.

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Um, where does it say that? If you could show me, please, in the Bible anything that says anything along those lines, it would be vastly appreciated.

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If the bible was simply a history of the Hebrews, then there should be no mention of how the Earth was created, the origins of life, or anything like that. It should only be concerned with the history of the Hebrews.

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Did you forget the part where I said "mythological and actual history of the Hebrews?"

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Poetic langauge? Then why is it that in the past Christians (the majority, prior to sceintific developments) thought the world was flat if it was simply an example of poetic langauge?

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Same reason the ancient Greeks thought the earth was flat, and probably the ancient atheists, too: it looked flat.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 6:34 pm on July 2, 2008

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I had already looked on biblegateway. Which book should I look in on the scrolldown?

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I don't know. What are you looking for?  

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Creationism and evolution are contradictory because creationism says that the flora and fauna have always been the same and never change. They stayed the same as god created them.  

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Um, where does it say that? If you could show me, please, in the Bible anything that says anything along those lines, it would be vastly appreciated.

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If the bible was simply a history of the Hebrews, then there should be no mention of how the Earth was created, the origins of life, or anything like that. It should only be concerned with the history of the Hebrews.

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Did you forget the part where I said "mythological and actual history of the Hebrews?"  

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Poetic langauge? Then why is it that in the past Christians (the majority, prior to sceintific developments) thought the world was flat if it was simply an example of poetic langauge?

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Same reason the ancient Greeks thought the earth was flat, and probably the ancient atheists, too: it looked flat.

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I'm looking for Genesis, But I don't know which bible should be used.

Look, I do not know the exact verses, and since I do not own a bible, I can not search.

No, but I did misinterpret it.

Ancient Greek philosophers, ancient scientists, and anceint sailors did know the Earth was round, and one even accurately calcualted its size.

http://www.iki.rssi.ru/mirrors/stern/stargaze/Scolumb.htm

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Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

Furthermore, that people used those verses to say, "lawl teh earth is flat!" in no way nullifies the fact that they are simply poetic imagery, not statements of scientific fact. If you cannot understand the difference between the two, you are wrong in the head.

As to your other points:

- NIV is probably the most accessible.

- http://www.biblegateway.com will help you find those verses. It has a keyword search. It's not rocket science.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

that people used those verses to say, "lawl teh earth is flat!" in no way nullifies the fact that they are simply poetic imagery, not statements of scientific fact.

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Why can't the whole bible be poetic like that? why can't it just be a story?
Why do people have faith that certain passages are "scientific fact"? Or that groups of passages convince them that there are metaphysical realities?

And by "scientific fact" I mean that....they really are there. They're existing things of which you have been convinced to have faith in.

Why does the Bible have the authority to claim truths about metaphysical realities? What makes it stand above all other claims and writings on metaphysical realities?
Why should one's eternal consciousness lay on such shaky, questionable grounds?

Post edited at 5:33 pm on July 2, 2008 by TooImaginativeTeen

If you want to get more specific, I can't because I haven't asked Him in person yet, since I'm not dead.

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Love, love, a thousand winters melting.
Love, yes love, as you wrap your arms around me. - The Myriad

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 3:59 pm on July 2, 2008

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that people used those verses to say, "lawl teh earth is flat!" in no way nullifies the fact that they are simply poetic imagery, not statements of scientific fact.

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Why can't the whole bible be poetic like that? why can't it just be a story?
Why do people have faith that certain passages are "scientific fact"? Or that groups of passages convince them that there are metaphysical realities?

And by "scientific fact" I mean that....they really are there. They're existing things of which you have been convinced to have faith in.

Why does the Bible have the authority to claim truths about metaphysical realities? What makes it stand above all other claims and writings on metaphysical realities?
Why should one's eternal consciousness lay on such shaky, questionable grounds?

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We've been through this before.

The verses pointed out there are written as poetry, by and large, or as imagery. They are not intended to be taken as statements of scientific fact. You would have to be a complete idiot to think that they were...or else entirely ignorant of literary study, which would not surprise me.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Whats with all the god topics, fucking hell.

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Well, what with this being a religion forum...

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"Now it's raining pornography
Lovers take shelter"     -Flobots

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Which is all well and good, but what about ancient everyday people who weren't of a scientific mindset? To be sure, a handful of people likely guessed that the earth was round, but the majority would've looked at it and said "flat."  

Furthermore, that people used those verses to say, "lawl teh earth is flat!" in no way nullifies the fact that they are simply poetic imagery, not statements of scientific fact. If you cannot understand the difference between the two, you are wrong in the head.

As to your other points:

- NIV is probably the most accessible.

- http://www.biblegateway.com will help you find those verses. It has a keyword search. It's not rocket science.

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I understand that these can be construed as "poetic imagery by less literal Christians.

I searched creation, creation unchanging, perpetual creation, etc. I couldn't find it, so disregard that since I have no verses to back up my claim.

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Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 3:59 pm on July 2, 2008

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Which is all well and good, but what about ancient everyday people who weren't of a scientific mindset? To be sure, a handful of people likely guessed that the earth was round, but the majority would've looked at it and said "flat."

 Furthermore, that people used those verses to say, "lawl teh earth is flat!" in no way nullifies the fact that they are simply poetic imagery, not statements of scientific fact. If you cannot understand the difference between the two, you are wrong in the head.  

 As to your other points:  

 - NIV is probably the most accessible.  

 - http://www.biblegateway.com will help you find those verses. It has a keyword search. It's not rocket science.

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I understand that these can be construed as "poetic imagery by less literal Christians.

I searched creation, creation unchanging, perpetual creation, etc. I couldn't find it, so disregard that since I have no verses to back up my claim.

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It's not just that they can be construed in that way by less literal Christians; it's that by studying the context in which these phrases were written, we understand that taking them in that literal way is an incorrect interpretation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that, kind of like it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if I said, "The sun just sank below the horizon," it doesn't mean that I honestly think that the sun moves through the sky.

It always bothers me to see atheists claiming that this poetic language is meant to be taken literally in this case, but don't also say to those who say "the sun rises in the east and sets in the west" that they probably think the solar system is geocentric because of it. I've never heard a Christian, in recent memory, who was stupid enough to claim that meaning for those verses, only angsty atheists who claim those verses should be taken in that way so that they can feel superior.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Nah God is not real.
Why is everyone talking about something that isn't real that you can't see?
It's like talking about air!

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Air is real.