If you don't think what Paul and/or the Qur'an wrote as sexist, please explain why or why not.

Post edited at 9:45 pm on May 11, 2008 by lsd

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Every Post You Make Goes To Charity

And I think all three religions are bullshit and exist only to lead and shepherd the sheep that are too dumb to believe in themselves and need to live for something else.

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Hagl Far Enki!
Kanskje hans evige lys vil regne ned på oss for alltid!

idk, i know i'm christian, and i guess both dont really make much sense, but i believe in jesus so it works for me

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I'm just as bad as straight guys...only chicks do it for me.

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Religion=Sexist, patriarchal, misogynist....

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Yes, the "Big Three" do indeed represent every single religion. [/sarcasm]

On topic: Plenty of Christians don't follow the NT word-for-word, and if I was a Christian I'd be with them.

Also, someone was telling me that Muslim women wearing a veil (not sure about the rest of the whole women's rights in Islam thing) is actually a cultural rather than a religious thing. That doesn't seem quite believable though, so if someone could point me either way (a specific verse would help...)

first link off of google.  

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Every Post You Make Goes To Charity

As for exegesis, it simply means to draw out the authorial intent based on knowledge of the social, historical, and literary context.  Paul lived in a time where gender roles were very much a reality and his intent was obviously to that end.  If someone is telling you that they applied only to that culture, then that isn't exegesis.  It's hermeneutics, that is the process of interpreting the meaning and application of a sacred text.  They are two completely different fields not to be confused.

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Sic Semper Moderators

Post edited at 5:19 pm on May 12, 2008 by Forever Angel

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Don't laugh at me, Don't call me names
Don't get your pleasure from my pain
In God's eyes we're all the same
Someday we'll all have perfect wings

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That really depends on what you mean by sexist.  I know this is going to send some heat my direction, but if you mean by advocating exclusive roles for men and women then certainly Paul is sexist.  If you mean by sexist that he thought of one sex as better than the other, more loved by God, then certainly not.

As for exegesis, it simply means to draw out the authorial intent based on knowledge of the social, historical, and literary context.  Paul lived in a time where gender roles were very much a reality and his intent was obviously to that end.  If someone is telling you that they applied only to that culture, then that isn't exegesis.  It's hermeneutics, that is the process of interpreting the meaning and application of a sacred text.  They are two completely different fields not to be confused.

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I remember in the past that you said the Church fathers held a consensus of women not speaking in church, but in Cor. 11.5, Paul says that women can actively pray and prophesy during services.

Also, what are your views of the active role many women held in the Church in the first century?  What about women like Priscilla and Phoebe, how would they to remain silent during sermons when their homes were used for services?  

There's an excellent book by Bonnie Thurston, "Women in the New Testament."  She (and other scholars) believe the passage in Corinthians instructing women to wear a covering while attending service was an interpolation.  My view on Paul had also changed after reading her book.

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Every Post You Make Goes To Charity

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I can't comment on Islamic views, but my take on Christianity is that was patriarchal to the extreme. But that doesn't make it either sexist or misogynistic. And it has changed a lot from those early times.

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What do you think of this verse:

1 Timothy 2:11-15:"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..."

When did women have authority over men?  And how did you come to this realization?

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Every Post You Make Goes To Charity

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Depends on how you're defining Christian doctrine beyond a First-Century author-audience relationship.

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I don't know what you mean exactly.  Could you explain?

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Every Post You Make Goes To Charity

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Quote: from Soren Kierkegaard at 4:14 pm on May 12, 2008

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Depends on how you're defining Christian doctrine beyond a First-Century author-audience relationship.

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I don't know what you mean exactly. Could you explain?

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God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say.
Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful:
he makes saints out of sinners.