selflessness i find immoral and retarded though

Post edited at 7:56 am on June 15, 2008 by Apotheosis

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yes, they're selfish

selflessness i find immoral and retarded though

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Immoral, if you have a family maybe? But yes, definitely retarded.

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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means
What you think it means." -Inigo Montoya

There's something in between the 2 choice unless you a retard

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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its not selflessness vs selfish

There's something in between the 2 choice unless you a retard

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Consider the following, taken from the introduction to Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness":

"There is a fundamental moral difference between a man who sees his self-interest in production and a man who sees it in robbery. The evil of a robber does not lie in the fact that he pursues his own interests, but in what he regards as to his own interest; not in the fact that he pursues his values, but in what he chose to value; not in the fact that he wants to live, but in the fact that he wants to live on a subhuman level (see 'The Objectivist Ethics').

"If it is true that what I mean by 'selfishness' is not what is meant conventionally, then this is one of the worst indictments of altruism: it means that altruism permits no concept of a self-respecting, self-supporting man--a man who supports his life by his own effort and neither sacrifices himself nor others. It means that altruism permits no view of men except as sacrificial animals and profiteers-on-sacrifice, as victims and parasites--that it permits no concept of a benevolent co-existence among men--that it permits no concept of justice."

As this passage applies to your question, libertarians ARE selfish in that they desire to create, and profit from what they create. They ARE selfish in that they do NOT believe that one is entitled to the fruits of another's creativity or productivity.

The socialist (or communist, fascist, statist, or virtually any other "-ist" EXCEPT the individualist or egoist), on the other hand, regards the fruits of OTHERS' creativity and production as being in the socialist's self-interest, and belonging, to a certain extent, to the socialist. The socialist believes that the producer has an obligation to sacrifice the fruits of his production for "the common good," thus putting the producer on the level of a slave or a sacrificial animal, subordinate to the "master." Libertarians view those of this "entitlement" mentality as robbers or parasites.

Post edited at 10:29 am on June 17, 2008 by mikeg80

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Yerushalayim shel zahav / Veshel nechoshet veshel or /
Halo lechol shirayich / Ani kinor.

Many libertarian policies result in more personal freedom, less use of governmental force against the non-consenting, but also improves society as a whole. How functional is something like the drug war, incarcerating 2.1 million in the US, spending billions per year, making drugs less safe AND not changing the illegal drug supply or lowering drug use? How functional is governmental laws requiring businesses to give health insurance, health care specifically in the form of insurance? Does making prostitution illegal really protect women and men, or does it make them more subject to hate crimes because the police won't protect them (this is especially important since many hate crimes against women are done against prostitutes/sex workers)? Making things illegal doesn't necessarily eliminate them, it can also makes things worse. Libertarianism recognizes the problems that overimposing government bureaucracy and inefficiency has on not only individuals but also society as a whole. Live and let live - if it doesn't hurt anyone else, why is it in anyone's business to make others unhappy and therefore increase dysfunction and crime?

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Not really. The stupid would end up starving to death.

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YES! Plleeeaaassseeee!

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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means
What you think it means." -Inigo Montoya

    Welfare is a failed system but like so many failed systems it should not be scraped but revised, which is a point many libertarians disagree upon.

selfishness is good man