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Then we may be talking about something entirely different, we may be talking about fear. Fear darkens the mind, distorts. How can we look at fear, without fear itself distorting our observation, without it damaging the lens?
We also have to make clear now what we mean by the psyche? And whether or not there actually is a 'normal state', whether or not there actually is psychological permanency at all?

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there are many ways. therapy, meditation, detached introspection, drugs. of course there is no clear way for us to openly examine the lens, we do our best with what we have.
i don't mean to define the terms themselves here but clarify what aspect of them we are talking about. i think by psyche we mean one's 'state of mind', the way in which one looks at and judges the world. i believe there is a normal state, for without one we would not be able to compare experiences. and from a neurological point of view, we have similar brains and i would find it ludicrous to suggest that there isn't psychological semi-permanence.

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One of the "Mystical Experiences" is some 16 year old kid amazed that
he hallucinates his old spanish class in a town square

In all reality though, I think that we all have our own predetermined plans. I would say that if something negative occurs, that is something that was meant to happen, and has a reason for happening.

I'm pretty much sure that this was not the desired answer. Oh well.

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Quote: from benjamine1 at 5:01 am on June 14, 2008

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Then we may be talking about something entirely different, we may be talking about fear. Fear darkens the mind, distorts. How can we look at fear, without fear itself distorting our observation, without it damaging the lens?  
 We also have to make clear now what we mean by the psyche? And whether or not there actually is a 'normal state', whether or not there actually is psychological permanency at all?

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there are many ways. therapy, meditation, detached introspection, drugs. of course there is no clear way for us to openly examine the lens, we do our best with what we have.
i don't mean to define the terms themselves here but clarify what aspect of them we are talking about. i think by psyche we mean one's 'state of mind', the way in which one looks at and judges the world. i believe there is a normal state, for without one we would not be able to compare experiences. and from a neurological point of view, we have similar brains and i would find it ludicrous to suggest that there isn't psychological semi-permanence.

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I'm sorry, but I don't see how any of the things you have mentioned can help one observe fear. Fear is you, the feeling, the conditioning. I don't know why you think these things can help. And I'm assuming what you mean by meditation is that silly cross-legged, or whatever, watching the breath thing.

I'm afraid I don't quite know what you mean by not being able to examine the lens, etc, either.

You say the 'way' in which one looks at and judges the world. What do you mean? Is it not possible to look at the world how it is, without judgement, without the word interfering, in freedom of these things?

What does a normal state have to do with comparing experiences? I don't quite understand you there either?
I don't know about neurology or any of that stuff, I know the fact of my own brain. I suffer. You suffer. The man in Iraq suffers. I think it's quite clear that we are, at least, similar psychologically, if not exactly the same.

You may find it ludicrous, but I am suggesting it sir, as a fact and not a theory of course. I'm suggesting there is no psychological permenence, in any human being.
I wonder, are you dealing with facts, looking at facts, or theories? Are we starting with conclusions, what neurology says, what the therapist says, or are we going to find out for ourselves what's going on here? Personally i see authority as a crutch, a barrier in our investigation. Including the authority of our selves, when we think we already know something. Is the description the described?