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Quote: from Enzeru at 4:06 pm on June 9, 2008

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Quote: from lovestruck13

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  there's also this part of the bible i found (i forgot where) that has been misinterpreted. two angels (male) came down and stayed in this guy's house. then all of the men in the city surrounded the house and demanded the guy bring the two men out so they could have sex with them. the city was destroyed. many people say that this is because of the homosexual factor, but really it was inhospitality to a guest. i'm also sure that God wasn't happy about the mens' intent to rape the angels, men or women.  

 

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Are you speaking about the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah where Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt?  

 And frankly being a non-denominational Christian I was always raised as God loves every human being, including those of homosexuality but he does not like their actions.  

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God does love everyone. It doesn't mean its ok to sin.

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So maybe I am confused at what remark you are trying to set?

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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's
ignorance."
Confucius

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Quote: from barnabas at 5:09 pm on June 9, 2008

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Quote: from Enzeru at 4:06 pm on June 9, 2008

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Quote: from lovestruck13

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  there's also this part of the bible i found (i forgot where) that has been misinterpreted. two angels (male) came down and stayed in this guy's house. then all of the men in the city surrounded the house and demanded the guy bring the two men out so they could have sex with them. the city was destroyed. many people say that this is because of the homosexual factor, but really it was inhospitality to a guest. i'm also sure that God wasn't happy about the mens' intent to rape the angels, men or women.  

 

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Are you speaking about the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah where Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt?

  And frankly being a non-denominational Christian I was always raised as God loves every human being, including those of homosexuality but he does not like their actions.

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 God does love everyone. It doesn't mean its ok to sin.

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I never said it was okay to sin, I did speak on the fact that he does not like their actions.  

So maybe I am confused at what remark you are trying to set?

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Just a comment that God's love is not really a factor. People often use "God's love" as an excuse to continue in their current behavior, regardless of its morality. Not implying you were or anything, just saying.

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Do not abandon yourselves to despair.
We are the Easter people and hallelujah is our song.

Pope John Paul II

what would you say to this and other quotes like this:

Jimmy Creech, former senior pastor of the First United Methodist Church, in Omaha, Nebraska

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...there was no understanding of sexual orientation in the culture and time when scripture was written. There was not even a word for 'homosexuality' or 'homosexual' in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, the original languages of scripture. There are biblical references that condemn same-sex sexual behavior, but they are all within contexts related to violence, idolatry, promiscuity and exploitation. Careful reading within the historical setting reveals that it is the violence, idolatry, promiscuity and exploitation that is condemned, not the same-sex sexual behavior. The same condemnation is given to opposite-sex sexual behavior that is violent, idolatrous, promiscuous and exploitative.

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or:

William Placher at the Episcopal Summit on Homosexuality

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Scriptural condemnations of homosexuality merely reflect biblical authors' cultural biases and are not among the "essential" messages of the gospel. The Bible's condemnations of same-gender sexuality call to mind other scriptural passages used in past centuries to justify slavery and to keep women from participating fully in the life of the church -- on the basis of long-held interpretations that are largely abandoned today. We must draw a line between cultural conventions and the truths that Bible stories convey

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Truth be told, I respect the latter more.  The first argument is from ignorance or deceit.  The second is at least a conscious theological decision about the viability of Scripture.  It's a decision I think is fatal to Christianity, but at least it is a product of his choice and not his ignorance.

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"It is the wrong question to ask, and therefore, as one  might expect, has
no right answer." - Hans von Campenhausen

This is the philosophy of my life.

I've never felt that Christianity had anything but negative things to say about homosexuality, and it's repulsing that unrepentant homosexuals would want to be a part of it. It really strikes me as similar to a battered wife staying with and being faithful to her abusive husband. "I know he really loves me..." Repent or wake up, as far as I'm concerned.

Post edited at 3:45 pm on June 9, 2008 by Shaknbake

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It's always made my head spin, seeing and hearing of openly, gay, practicing homosexuals who are otherwise observant Christians. There was a video on Youtube or somewhere similar showing these parents bleeding their hearts out about how nice it was they were able to find a traditional (I guess you call it High Church? The Eucharist, complex ceremonies and all that business) church that allowed practicing gay members in.

I've never felt that Christianity had anything but negative things to say about homosexuality, and it's repulsing that unrepentant homosexuals would want to be a part of it. It really strikes me as similar to a battered wife staying with and being faithful to her abusive husband. "I know he really loves me..." Repent or wake up, as far as I'm concerned.

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It has always confused me as well. I read statements by people who are practicing christian gays and I am just confused by them. do they not see what they are saying. How can they read what I am reading and walk away saying, its chill, God loves me.

It perplexes me to the very depths of my soul.

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Do not abandon yourselves to despair.
We are the Easter people and hallelujah is our song.

Pope John Paul II

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Quote: from Enzeru at 4:10 pm on June 9, 2008

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Quote: from barnabas at 5:09 pm on June 9, 2008

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Quote: from Enzeru at 4:06 pm on June 9, 2008

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Quote: from lovestruck13

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   there's also this part of the bible i found (i forgot where) that has been misinterpreted. two angels (male) came down and stayed in this guy's house. then all of the men in the city surrounded the house and demanded the guy bring the two men out so they could have sex with them. the city was destroyed. many people say that this is because of the homosexual factor, but really it was inhospitality to a guest. i'm also sure that God wasn't happy about the mens' intent to rape the angels, men or women.  

 

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Are you speaking about the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah where Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt?    

  And frankly being a non-denominational Christian I was always raised as God loves every human being, including those of homosexuality but he does not like their actions.  

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  God does love everyone. It doesn't mean its ok to sin.

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I never said it was okay to sin, I did speak on the fact that he does not like their actions.

 So maybe I am confused at what remark you are trying to set?

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Just a comment that God's love is not really a factor. People often use "God's love" as an excuse to continue in their current behavior, regardless of its morality. Not implying you were or anything, just saying.

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However, the morality/immorality of homosexuality is debatable. I have encountered some very moral homosexuals, and even more immoral heterosexuals.

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Kiara Liz 

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That is a long ass post- even for me. I normally read anything no matter how long it is but WoW.

-God didn't write the bible. People did. There's not doubt about it that people can be weird, stupid, insane ect. ect.

Homosexuality is here. It's been here for a VERY long time. It's not going anywhere.  
Many, Many people are just fine with it, you know why? because it's not hurting anyone.
So.
Everyone just needs to Get the fuck over it.

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When we speak here of the created order, we are not speaking about the issue of whether or not homosexuality is natural (i.e. occurring in the natural world) but whether or not it conforms to divine intentions for sexual relationships.  Divine intention is expressed in divine action.  God made man and woman giving them one sexual mandate, that is procreation

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So you are saying that sterile people should not have sex?

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A great deal of posturing has been attempted to explain away these verses.  Many suggest that they apply only to cultic prostitution or that they implicitly allow female homosexual relations.  Both of these interpretations deny the plain sense of these verses.

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So you agree that Christians have a duty to kill homosexuals? If you claim that it no longer applies, then you cannot use that reference to support your homophobic worldview.

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

And I already explained how looking at Old Covenant practice can be pertinent to the discussion while still believing that the New Covenant has made obsolete those laws which are not reiterated by Jesus and the apostles.

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"It is the wrong question to ask, and therefore, as one  might expect, has
no right answer." - Hans von Campenhausen

This is the philosophy of my life.

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I never said anything about sterile people nor did I say sex only existed for procreation, only that it was the marital sexual mandate of the prototypical couple.

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And I already explained how looking at Old Covenant practice can be pertinent to the discussion while still believing that the New Covenant has made obsolete those laws which are not reiterated by Jesus and the apostles.

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So you are asserting that false moral propositions are relevant? So you are asserting moral relativism?

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

...but no.  I think you just like to bicker and don't mind being inconsistent in yourself.

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"It is the wrong question to ask, and therefore, as one  might expect, has
no right answer." - Hans von Campenhausen

This is the philosophy of my life.