LiveWire Network Peer Answers Peer Support Teen Forums Tech Forums College Forums 735 users online 174554 members 1560 active today Advertise Here Sign In
TeenCollegeTechPhotos | Quizzes | LiveSecret | Video | Dictionary | News | FAQ
You have 1 new message.
Emergency Help
Until you sign up you can't do much. Yes, it's free.

Sign Up Now
Membername:
Password:
Already have an account?
Invite Friends
Active Members
Groups
Contests
Moderators
2 online / 125 MPM
Fresh Topics
  LiveWire / Teen Forums / World News & Current Events / Viewing Topic

Vietnam II
Replies: 19Last Post June 4 8:40pm by Shogun villimax
Pages: 1 2  Next » Email Print Favorite
Choice Votes Percent  
Yes 9 25%
No 18 51%
1/4 8 22%
Vote Now! 35 Votes Cast
( SgtPatches )

Wealthy Hobo
Reply
Do you believe that the War in Iraq parallels greatly the Vietnam War?

-------
To be a man you must have honor.
Honor and a penis.

9:32 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Mar. 2008 | 94 Days Active
Join to learn more about SgtPatches Texas, United States | Straight Male | 4669 Posts | 5629 Points
Bzoink


♠ ♣ ♥ ♦

Patron
Reply
Not particularly, maybe a little.

9:32 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Nov. 2005 | 365 Days Active
Join to learn more about Bzoink Oregon, United States | Label Free Male | 13896 Posts | 39369 Points
Black Sheep


Visionary

Patron
Support Leader
Reply
In some ways.

But not really.

-------
I saw you there so unaware,
Those hummingbirds all in your hair,
Elementary, son, but it's so...


9:32 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Aug. 2007 | 325 Days Active
Join to learn more about Black Sheep Florida, United States | Gay Male | 13656 Posts | 9840 Points
neverjeeps


Wealthy Hobo

Sustainer
Reply
no

-------
98% of teens have tried smoking pot and drinking.
If you're a winner, copy this and put it in your signature.

9:33 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Mar. 2008 | 115 Days Active
Join to learn more about neverjeeps Texas, United States | Straight Male | 3852 Posts | 5881 Points
matto


Connoisseur

Ad Free
Tech Support Leader
Reply

l. Both wars were illegal acts of pre-emptive aggression unsanctioned by international law or world opinion. Earlier, U.S. interventions involved successive US administrations. JFK's CIA helped put Saddam in power, Reagan armed him to fight Iran. George Bush, 41 led the first Gulf War against him. Clinton tightened sanctions. George Bush, 43 invaded again. Five Administrations--Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Ford fought in Vietnam.

2. Both wars were launched with deception. In Iraq it was the now proven phony WMD threat and contrived Saddam-Osama connection. In Vietnam, it was the fabricated Gulf of Tonkin incident and the elections mandated by the Geneva agreement that were canceled by Washington in l956 when the US feared Ho Chi Minh would win.

3. The government lied regularly in both wars. Back then, the lies were pronounced a "credibility gap." Today, they are considered acceptable "information warfare." In Saigon military briefers conducted discredited "5 O'Clock Follies" press conferences. In this war, the Pentagon spoon-fed info at a Hollywood style briefing center in Doha.

4. The US press was initially an enthusiastic cheerleader in both wars. When Vietnam protest grew and the war seen as a lost cause, the media frame changed. In Iraq today most of the media is trapped in hotel rooms. Only one side is covered now whereas in Vietnam, there was more reporting occasionally from the other. In Vietnam, the accent was on progress and "turned corners." The same is true in Iraq.

5. In both wars, prisoners were abused. In South Vietnam, thousands of captives were tortured in what were the called "tiger cages." Vietnamese POWs were often killed; In North Vietnam, some US POWs were abused after bombing civilians. In Iraq, POWs on both sides were also mistreated. It was US soldiers that first leaked major war crimes and abuses. In Vietnam, Ron Ridenour disclosed the My Lai Massacre. In Iraq, it was a soldier who first told investigators about the torture in Abu Ghraib prison. (Seymour Hersh the reporter who exposed My-Lai in Vietnam later exposed illegal abuses in Iraq.)

6. Illegal weapons were "deployed" in both wars. The US dropped napalm, used cluster bombs against civilians and sprayed toxic agent orange in Vietnam. Cluster bombs and updated Mark 77 napalm-like firebombs were dropped on Iraqis. Depleted uranium was added to the arsenal of prohibited weapons in Iraq.

7. Both wars claimed to be about promoting democracy. Vietnam staged elections and saw a succession of governments controlled by the US. come and go. Iraq has had one election so far in which most voters say they were casting ballots primarily to get the US to leave. The US has stage-managed Iraq's interim government. Exiles were brought back and put in power. Vietnam's Diem came from New Jersey, Iraq's Allawi from Britain.

8. Both wars claimed to be about noble international goals. Vietnam was pictured as a crusade against aggressive communism and falling dominos. Iraq was sold as a front in a global war on terrorism. Neither claim proved true.

9. An imperial drive for resource control and markets helped drive both interventions. Vietnam had rubber and manganese and rare minerals. Iraq has oil. In both wars, any economic agenda was officially denied and ignored by most media outlets.

10. Both wars took place in countries with cultures we never understood or spoke the language, Both involved "insurgents" whose military prowess was underestimated and misrepresented. In Vietnam, we called the "enemy" communists; in Iraq we call them foreign terrorists. (Soldiers had their own terms, "gooks" in Vietnam, "ragheads" in Iraq) In both counties, they was in fact an indigenous resistance that enjoyed popular support. (Both targeted and brutalized people they considered collaborators with the invaders just as our own Revolution went after Americans who backed the British.) In both wars, as in all wars, innocent civilians died in droves.

11. In both countries the US promised to help rebuild the damages caused by US bombing. In Vietnam, a $2 Billion presidential reconstruction pledge was not honored. In Iraq, the electricity and other services are still out in many areas. In both wars US companies and suppliers have profited handsomely; Brown &Root in Vietnam; Halliburton in Iraq, to cite but two.

12. In Vietnam, the Pentagon's counter-insurgency effort failed to "pacify" the countryside even with a half a million US soldiers "in country." The insurgency in Iraq is growing despite the best efforts of US soldiers. More have died since President Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" than during the invasion.

-- http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0501-32.htm


HELL YES.

-------
I REP THE BAY AREA

where real hip hop lyricism is real music.

9:33 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Aug. 2007 | 203 Days Active
Join to learn more about matto California, United States | Straight Male | 3799 Posts | 7251 Points
Miden


Wealthy Hobo
Reply
Nope. Anyone who claims they are close to the same needs to read up on history some more.

-------
#10 Auburn defeats UL-Monroe 34-0
Sep.6- vs. Southern Miss. WAR EAGLE!

9:33 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined April 2007 | 266 Days Active
Join to learn more about Miden Alabama, United States | Straight Male | 2475 Posts | 5255 Points
Soren Kierkegaard

Wealthy Hobo

Patron
Reply
Far too many people are living during this conflict than previous ones, if I were to quote the previous acting Army Surgeon General, of course.  Couldn't believe she said that though during one of the last meetings I had with her before she stepped down.


-------
What are your Top 10 Favorite Movies?

Goofy rocks my face off!

9:34 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Feb. 2008 | 108 Days Active
Join to learn more about Soren Kierkegaard Texas, United States | Straight Male | 4277 Posts | 4058 Points
silverrose42


Wealthy Hobo
Reply
In some ways...

-------
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former. ~Albert Einstein~

9:34 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Nov. 2007 | 161 Days Active
Join to learn more about silverrose42 Colorado, United States | Straight Female | 3593 Posts | 5372 Points
matto


Connoisseur

Ad Free
Tech Support Leader
Reply
Quote: from Miden at 9:33 pm on June 3, 2008

Nope. Anyone who claims they are close to the same needs to read up on history some more.
Full of shit.  Please explain further.  Oh wait, you can't.

-------
I REP THE BAY AREA

where real hip hop lyricism is real music.

9:34 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Aug. 2007 | 203 Days Active
Join to learn more about matto California, United States | Straight Male | 3799 Posts | 7251 Points
Atti


Soothsayer

Patron
Reply
Yes.

9:34 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Sep. 2007 | 241 Days Active
Join to learn more about Atti Switzerland | 7869 Posts | 11508 Points
neverjeeps


Wealthy Hobo

Sustainer
Reply
Quote: from matto at 9:34 pm on June 3, 2008

Quote: from Miden at 9:33 pm on June 3, 2008

Nope. Anyone who claims they are close to the same needs to read up on history some more.
Full of shit. Please explain further. Oh wait, you can't.


look at the death toll retard

-------
98% of teens have tried smoking pot and drinking.
If you're a winner, copy this and put it in your signature.

9:35 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Mar. 2008 | 115 Days Active
Join to learn more about neverjeeps Texas, United States | Straight Male | 3852 Posts | 5881 Points
tkedwn119


Executive
Reply
Quote: from matto at 12:33 am on June 4, 2008


l. Both wars were illegal acts of pre-emptive aggression unsanctioned by international law or world opinion. Earlier, U.S. interventions involved successive US administrations. JFK's CIA helped put Saddam in power, Reagan armed him to fight Iran. George Bush, 41 led the first Gulf War against him. Clinton tightened sanctions. George Bush, 43 invaded again. Five Administrations--Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Ford fought in Vietnam.

2. Both wars were launched with deception. In Iraq it was the now proven phony WMD threat and contrived Saddam-Osama connection. In Vietnam, it was the fabricated Gulf of Tonkin incident and the elections mandated by the Geneva agreement that were canceled by Washington in l956 when the US feared Ho Chi Minh would win.

3. The government lied regularly in both wars. Back then, the lies were pronounced a "credibility gap." Today, they are considered acceptable "information warfare." In Saigon military briefers conducted discredited "5 O'Clock Follies" press conferences. In this war, the Pentagon spoon-fed info at a Hollywood style briefing center in Doha.

4. The US press was initially an enthusiastic cheerleader in both wars. When Vietnam protest grew and the war seen as a lost cause, the media frame changed. In Iraq today most of the media is trapped in hotel rooms. Only one side is covered now whereas in Vietnam, there was more reporting occasionally from the other. In Vietnam, the accent was on progress and "turned corners." The same is true in Iraq.

5. In both wars, prisoners were abused. In South Vietnam, thousands of captives were tortured in what were the called "tiger cages." Vietnamese POWs were often killed; In North Vietnam, some US POWs were abused after bombing civilians. In Iraq, POWs on both sides were also mistreated. It was US soldiers that first leaked major war crimes and abuses. In Vietnam, Ron Ridenour disclosed the My Lai Massacre. In Iraq, it was a soldier who first told investigators about the torture in Abu Ghraib prison. (Seymour Hersh the reporter who exposed My-Lai in Vietnam later exposed illegal abuses in Iraq.)

6. Illegal weapons were "deployed" in both wars. The US dropped napalm, used cluster bombs against civilians and sprayed toxic agent orange in Vietnam. Cluster bombs and updated Mark 77 napalm-like firebombs were dropped on Iraqis. Depleted uranium was added to the arsenal of prohibited weapons in Iraq.

7. Both wars claimed to be about promoting democracy. Vietnam staged elections and saw a succession of governments controlled by the US. come and go. Iraq has had one election so far in which most voters say they were casting ballots primarily to get the US to leave. The US has stage-managed Iraq's interim government. Exiles were brought back and put in power. Vietnam's Diem came from New Jersey, Iraq's Allawi from Britain.

8. Both wars claimed to be about noble international goals. Vietnam was pictured as a crusade against aggressive communism and falling dominos. Iraq was sold as a front in a global war on terrorism. Neither claim proved true.

9. An imperial drive for resource control and markets helped drive both interventions. Vietnam had rubber and manganese and rare minerals. Iraq has oil. In both wars, any economic agenda was officially denied and ignored by most media outlets.

10. Both wars took place in countries with cultures we never understood or spoke the language, Both involved "insurgents" whose military prowess was underestimated and misrepresented. In Vietnam, we called the "enemy" communists; in Iraq we call them foreign terrorists. (Soldiers had their own terms, "gooks" in Vietnam, "ragheads" in Iraq) In both counties, they was in fact an indigenous resistance that enjoyed popular support. (Both targeted and brutalized people they considered collaborators with the invaders just as our own Revolution went after Americans who backed the British.) In both wars, as in all wars, innocent civilians died in droves.

11. In both countries the US promised to help rebuild the damages caused by US bombing. In Vietnam, a $2 Billion presidential reconstruction pledge was not honored. In Iraq, the electricity and other services are still out in many areas. In both wars US companies and suppliers have profited handsomely; Brown &Root in Vietnam; Halliburton in Iraq, to cite but two.

12. In Vietnam, the Pentagon's counter-insurgency effort failed to "pacify" the countryside even with a half a million US soldiers "in country." The insurgency in Iraq is growing despite the best efforts of US soldiers. More have died since President Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" than during the invasion.  

-- http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0501-32.htm


HELL YES.

The US doesn't have to conform to international law, we have the UN in our hands

-------
Jon Lester 10-3 3.14ERA 101Ks
WHIP 1.31 6K/9

9:36 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Mar. 2008 | 128 Days Active
Join to learn more about tkedwn119 Virginia, United States | Straight Male | 1798 Posts | 3178 Points
reev


Soothsayer

Patron
Reply
"This one aint nothin' like Vietnam. Except for the bullets, except for the bombs".

-------
Only the birds fly first class...

9:36 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Nov. 2006 | 395 Days Active
Join to learn more about reev Wisconsin, United States | Straight Male | 6004 Posts | 11454 Points
Reconciliation

Dairy Product Addict

Patron
Reply
Quote: from matto at 9:33 pm on June 3, 2008


l. Both wars were illegal acts of pre-emptive aggression unsanctioned by international law or world opinion. Earlier, U.S. interventions involved successive US administrations. JFK's CIA helped put Saddam in power, Reagan armed him to fight Iran. George Bush, 41 led the first Gulf War against him. Clinton tightened sanctions. George Bush, 43 invaded again. Five Administrations--Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Ford fought in Vietnam.

2. Both wars were launched with deception. In Iraq it was the now proven phony WMD threat and contrived Saddam-Osama connection. In Vietnam, it was the fabricated Gulf of Tonkin incident and the elections mandated by the Geneva agreement that were canceled by Washington in l956 when the US feared Ho Chi Minh would win.

3. The government lied regularly in both wars. Back then, the lies were pronounced a "credibility gap." Today, they are considered acceptable "information warfare." In Saigon military briefers conducted discredited "5 O'Clock Follies" press conferences. In this war, the Pentagon spoon-fed info at a Hollywood style briefing center in Doha.

4. The US press was initially an enthusiastic cheerleader in both wars. When Vietnam protest grew and the war seen as a lost cause, the media frame changed. In Iraq today most of the media is trapped in hotel rooms. Only one side is covered now whereas in Vietnam, there was more reporting occasionally from the other. In Vietnam, the accent was on progress and "turned corners." The same is true in Iraq.

5. In both wars, prisoners were abused. In South Vietnam, thousands of captives were tortured in what were the called "tiger cages." Vietnamese POWs were often killed; In North Vietnam, some US POWs were abused after bombing civilians. In Iraq, POWs on both sides were also mistreated. It was US soldiers that first leaked major war crimes and abuses. In Vietnam, Ron Ridenour disclosed the My Lai Massacre. In Iraq, it was a soldier who first told investigators about the torture in Abu Ghraib prison. (Seymour Hersh the reporter who exposed My-Lai in Vietnam later exposed illegal abuses in Iraq.)

6. Illegal weapons were "deployed" in both wars. The US dropped napalm, used cluster bombs against civilians and sprayed toxic agent orange in Vietnam. Cluster bombs and updated Mark 77 napalm-like firebombs were dropped on Iraqis. Depleted uranium was added to the arsenal of prohibited weapons in Iraq.

7. Both wars claimed to be about promoting democracy. Vietnam staged elections and saw a succession of governments controlled by the US. come and go. Iraq has had one election so far in which most voters say they were casting ballots primarily to get the US to leave. The US has stage-managed Iraq's interim government. Exiles were brought back and put in power. Vietnam's Diem came from New Jersey, Iraq's Allawi from Britain.

8. Both wars claimed to be about noble international goals. Vietnam was pictured as a crusade against aggressive communism and falling dominos. Iraq was sold as a front in a global war on terrorism. Neither claim proved true.

9. An imperial drive for resource control and markets helped drive both interventions. Vietnam had rubber and manganese and rare minerals. Iraq has oil. In both wars, any economic agenda was officially denied and ignored by most media outlets.

10. Both wars took place in countries with cultures we never understood or spoke the language, Both involved "insurgents" whose military prowess was underestimated and misrepresented. In Vietnam, we called the "enemy" communists; in Iraq we call them foreign terrorists. (Soldiers had their own terms, "gooks" in Vietnam, "ragheads" in Iraq) In both counties, they was in fact an indigenous resistance that enjoyed popular support. (Both targeted and brutalized people they considered collaborators with the invaders just as our own Revolution went after Americans who backed the British.) In both wars, as in all wars, innocent civilians died in droves.

11. In both countries the US promised to help rebuild the damages caused by US bombing. In Vietnam, a $2 Billion presidential reconstruction pledge was not honored. In Iraq, the electricity and other services are still out in many areas. In both wars US companies and suppliers have profited handsomely; Brown &Root in Vietnam; Halliburton in Iraq, to cite but two.

12. In Vietnam, the Pentagon's counter-insurgency effort failed to "pacify" the countryside even with a half a million US soldiers "in country." The insurgency in Iraq is growing despite the best efforts of US soldiers. More have died since President Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" than during the invasion.  

-- http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0501-32.htm


HELL YES.

agreed

-------
Nipple Piercings by 6/19/08. pics afterward


9:38 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined April 2008 | 42 Days Active
Join to learn more about Reconciliation California, United States | Bisexual Male | 1241 Posts | 1255 Points
matto


Connoisseur

Ad Free
Tech Support Leader
Reply
tkedwn119 - that doesn't change the parallels
neverjeeps - so what?  there are so many other factors.

-------
I REP THE BAY AREA

where real hip hop lyricism is real music.

9:39 pm on June 3, 2008 | Joined Aug. 2007 | 203 Days Active
Join to learn more about matto California, United States | Straight Male | 3799 Posts | 7251 Points
Pages: 1 2  Next » Email Print Favorite

Quick Reply

You are signed in as our guest.

Looking for something else?
 

  LiveWire / Teen Forums / World News & Current Events / Viewing Topic