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World peace? |
| Do you think there will ever be such a thing? |
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 Replies: 57 — Last Post Oct. 29, 2006 2:12pm by ichasecarz
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rimv
Dairy Product Addict
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This is why world peace is a possibility: think of modern europe. It's a continent where warfare has existed ceaselessly for millenia, culminating in the two bloodiest wars the world has ever seen. And today, despite keeping roughly the same borders, languages, and national identies, the only armed conflict within Europe since WWII has been the civil war in former Yugoslavia. You can chart that up to whatever you like, and there's no simple explanation for it. But what it does show is pretty clear - at some breaking point, people see that war is actually a fucking stupid idea. And please, if you're going to argue that any war has ever been fought over "morality" or "dispute resolution" (kinda ran out of words there, didn't ya?) at least provide a source, since I can't think of a single example for any of those. As an additional counter-point, war does NOT always boost an economy. It boosts consumption, which under certain conditions can aid an economy (such as post the WWII US) - alternately, think of Russia and Germany during WWII - both their economies went to shit.
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If you can read this, you're not our president.
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8:49 pm on Oct. 2, 2006 | Joined Oct. 2003 | 759 Days Active
Join to learn more about rimv California, United States | GLBT Ally Male | 4397 Posts | 12702 Points
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Blackadder
Dairy Product Addict
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 This is why world peace is a possibility: think of modern europe. It's a continent where warfare has existed ceaselessly for millenia, culminating in the two bloodiest wars the world has ever seen. And today, despite keeping roughly the same borders, languages, and national identies, the only armed conflict within Europe since WWII has been the civil war in former Yugoslavia. 
post 1945 (excluding cold war, and all other "stupid" entries) 1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus.
1994-96 1st Chechen War
1991 Slovenia
1991-95 Croatian war of Indep.
1992-95 Bosnia
1999 secound Chechen War
2001 Macedonia conflict
2001 Serbia conflict Source:- Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe
"And please, if you're going to argue that any war has ever been fought over "morality" or "dispute resolution" (kinda ran out of words there, didn't ya?) at least provide a source, since I can't think of a single example for any of those."
1) Wars are rarely fought over 1 singular issue. 2) Morality has played its part in war -- a recent example Is that of Iraq --- The reason (or so we have been told) was to remove a dictaitor, which of course has political and ethical reprecussions. Bush, at least to the public, made a MORAL ARGUEMENT.
3) No, I didn't run out of words...and this correcting-me-shit is getting tiresome. 4) "dispute resolution"... If people won't listen to words, you have to make them listen with fists. Hitler couldn't be negociated with (despite Chamberlins efforts)...because he didn't listen, and because his idea's conflicted with the interest of others, war was THE ONLY WAY TO RESOLVE THE DISPUTE(s).
Post edited at 2:17 pm on Oct. 3, 2006 by Blackadder
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The truth is what money can be made from a lie.
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Blackadder
Dairy Product Addict
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As an additional counter-point, war does NOT always boost an economy. It boosts consumption, which under certain conditions can aid an economy (such as post the WWII US) - alternately, think of Russia and Germany during WWII - both their economies went to shit.
Oh I agree, I'm not stupid enough to argue war ALLWAYS boosts economny, but to say "never" is equally stupid.
for the most part, It depends on 3 things:- 1) The economic Model.
2) The Resources/means of production.
3) The economic situation BEFORE THE WAR.
4) The Effectivness of Administration and other variables, such as luck.
now, Unto your example of Russia, and Germany. Germany:- WW1 war reparations, the great depression (1929), Invasion of the Ruhr, etc fucked germany's economny right over...it only made any real recovery under Hitler, because he started "arming up" In addition to that, the Wiemar Constitution offered very poor administraition, thus the economic problems worsen (until Hitler)
Russia:- A vast land, full of lots of people is a place not particually rich of resources. Problem 1. Russia's was still trying to "recover" [economically] from its revolution. Problem 2.
Conclusion, Russia didn't have much of an economy to start with, and was shit with or without war (though that is not to say war didn't make things worse) and Germany only managed to sort out its economny through years of "arming up" --- and by the end of the war of course its economy was going to be shit -- the means of production had been bombed and half the country had been invaded.
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The truth is what money can be made from a lie.
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rosebud
Soothsayer
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in what way is survival necessary? please explain this to me.
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dear mamma now that we're older
we can see the load on your tired old shoulders
mamma you're a trooper mamma you're a soldier
mamma you mean a lot to me
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rosebud
Soothsayer
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i wasnt talking about the goal "to survive"
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dear mamma now that we're older
we can see the load on your tired old shoulders
mamma you're a trooper mamma you're a soldier
mamma you mean a lot to me
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