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  LiveWire / Teen Forums / The Intellectual Forum / Viewing Topic

'They' as the gender-neutral singular pronoun
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Replies: 48Last Post April 22, 2007 1:14pm by Babiilnc
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( Spasty )

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In your opinion, is "they" legitimately the gender-neutral singular pronoun? Why?

In my opinion, it is grammatically correct (due to linguistic evolution). I'm fairly sure that Harvard English classes back this up.

To the grammar purists: language changes. Note how around the 16th century, purists insisted upon the use of thou.

Post edited at 6:06 pm on Sep. 29, 2006 by Spasty

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porcelain


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No.

It just doesn't sound right whne you use it as one.

gender-neutral plural pronoun.. yes. Not singular, though.


If I'm not understanding the point of your post, sorry.

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Prescriptivist grammarians, or anyone that thinks about the subject for more than a moment would likely disagree with you. I, however, don't necessarily. I think the way the language has evolved is just as important a determinant to what it should become (syntax-wise).

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Quote: from porcelain at 12:35 am on Sep. 27, 2006

No.

It just doesn't sound right whne you use it as one.  

gender-neutral plural pronoun.. yes. Not singular, though.

 
If I'm not understanding the point of your post, sorry.


I messed up the word.

I mean the context of, "They have a book."
Instead of, "He/she has a book."

Language evolves so much!! Think about how we've moved from "Ich am the bit withe grammyre," (pretend I spelled all of that right) to "I am the best with grammar." (Either way, I am not. I am far from it.)

Both are English. The first is hardly understandable without some thought.

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porcelain


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OH. Well, in that case.

I think while writing it's innapropriate to write that way, but speaking that way is acceptable.

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Quote: from porcelain at 12:46 am on Sep. 27, 2006

OH. Well, in that case.

I think while writing it's innapropriate to write that way, but speaking that way is acceptable.


Where do you draw the line for "writing?"

Published? Official? Do you deem it acceptable for colloquial texts (such as LiveWire)?

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anonymousss


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'They' is plural, which must be given a specific context beforehand, in order to determine if it is gender specific.

Other languages, like Spanish, for example, resolves this issue, as there exists gender specific, plural nouns, etc:  ellas versus ellos.

But I'm merely stating the facts.  English is actually one of the few languages that do not have a masculine and feminine feature.

There's a reason why 'they' is plural; it would be hard to substitute anything else (as part of the English language).

Edit:  Thus, I disagree.  Forgot to mention this!

Post edited at 10:00 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 by anonymousss

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porcelain


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I think it's fine for livewire, but, things such as essays, and published writings... it seems inappropriate and unacceptable.

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Quote: from anonymousss at 12:54 am on Sep. 27, 2006

'They' is plural, which must be given a specific context beforehand, in order to determine if it is gender specific.

Other languages, like Spanish, for example, resolves this issue, as there exists gender specific, plural nouns, etc:  ellas versus ellos.

But I'm merely stating the facts.  English is actually one of the few languages that do not have a masculine and feminine feature.

Edit:  Thus, I disagree.  Forgot to mention this!


Bad grammar -> accepted usage -> grammatical

^ How linguistic evolution works (for some things) ^

How would you feel (for the sake of debate) if in 15-20 years, it became grammatical? It's obviously in the "accepted usage" stage, as one hears it all the time, especially when anonymity is wanted.

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Whether or not it is grammatically correct it's still used.

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Quote: from Spasty at 1:04 am on Sep. 27, 2006

How would you feel . . . if in 15-20 years, it became grammatical?


Well, for one, I would think the world has gone insane.  And if it would indeed, ever to happen, it would not be after a mere 20 years, lest for slang.

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Quote: from anonymousss at 11:40 am on Sep. 27, 2006

Quote: from Spasty at 1:04 am on Sep. 27, 2006

 How would you feel . . . if in 15-20 years, it became grammatical?


Well, for one, I would think the world has gone insane.  And if it would indeed, ever to happen, it would not be after a mere 20 years, lest for slang.


But, as noted in the original post, I'm fairly sure that Harvard accepts it as grammatical.

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anonymousss


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Aside that it is one school, you're "fairly sure"?

I'm sorry, but I would need something more concrete than your assurance.

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1:32 pm on Sep. 27, 2006 | Joined: Jan. 2003 | Days Active: 470
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Quote: from anonymousss at 4:32 pm on Sep. 27, 2006

Aside that it is one school, you're "fairly sure"?  

I'm sorry, but I would need something more concrete than your assurance.


I will contact my friend who is an English major there.

Sure, one school, but it is rather prestigious.

EDIT: I just realized that I haven't a way to contact him. If I get the chance I will post.

Post edited at 1:43 pm on Sep. 27, 2006 by Spasty

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It fills a little hole in the language to use "they" in that fashion. Granted, it is improper use, but the reasoning behind it is sound.

In everyday conversation it is a way to refer to a gender non-specific hypothetical person without excessive formality. Behold!

Formal:

"If one was to punch a gorilla it is likely that one would soon become sad."

Casual:

"If someone punched a gorilla, they'd totally get their shit kicked in."

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