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'They' as the gender-neutral singular pronoun |
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 Replies: 48 — Last Post April 22, 2007 1:14pm by Babiilnc
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 LiveWire Humor
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( Spasty )
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Quote: from IamNotBritish at 1:17 am on Oct. 26, 2006
 What I'm saying is that linguistic evolution by itself is not a reason to use incorrect grammar. It has to be something that is generally useful and must be accepted over time and become gradually integrated into verbal and written discourse. 
It is generally useful, otherwise it wouldn't be in linguistic evolution. Evolution (in languages) simplifies things. People don't just decide on it, then integrate it. It just happens. Once you see it happen, it really can't be stopped (aside from drastic measures). Also, it already is in common usage. Children have it in their minds as "correct." It's how they've been taught. It's in your head, also. Imagine this conversation. Me: They stole my bike!
You: Who did?
Me: That person in the green mask! Now, aside from how non-quotidian that conversation is, you have undoubtedly had some sort of conversation just like it. People use "they" to hide gender, or if they simply do not know the gender. Also, as I have said before, some English professors do accept it. I daresay someone with a doctorate in English qualifies as one who may accept it. Finally, I'm not saying it should replace one. It doesn't replace it. It can't replace it. It's simply illogical. You don't say, "One's test says, 'The cows are blue.'" You say, "His/her/their test says, 'The cows are blue.'"
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2:39 pm on Oct. 26, 2006 | Joined: Sep. 2005 | Days Active: 667
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Quote: from penguincube at 12:01 am on Oct. 27, 2006
That speech is conversational vernacular, though, Spasty. We say plenty of things verbally that are not grammatically correct, and unless you were using quotations to refer to a spoken dialogue, I would not consider using "they" in that context syntactically correct in an academic paper.
That may be true, but some people do accept it as proper. The real difference is just who your talking to. In 10-20 years, however, I feel that this will be acceptable grammar in all places.
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9:05 pm on Oct. 26, 2006 | Joined: Sep. 2005 | Days Active: 667
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Quote: from penguincube at 12:11 am on Oct. 27, 2006
Let's assume for a moment that nobody with a Doctorate in any language-related field accepted "they" as a singular pronoun. You, at your current age, acceped "they" in this form. You go on to earn a Doctorate in modern language. Does this automatically make it correct, now? I fail to see the legitimacy of your argument that "some" people some of whom have Doctorates (who these people are, I don't even know, but I'll take your word) suddenly changes the established rules of grammar.
I have met people with doctorate degrees in English that accept it. Honestly, yes. We don't have something like l'Acadamie Française (that I know of) that regulates all grammar, as the French do. We must go by what the people with such degrees say. Sure, if one says something, it doesn't necessarily make it fact, but if a bunch agree, then yeah, sure.
Then again, I have a strong belief that the elderly may make things up after ~70 years, and it is automatically fact (as long as it's not something that goes against nature). For example, if they say desks are really called "blicks," then, in my mind, there's no arguing that. Elderly and highly learned people are placed very highly (in my mind), and have the authority to do such things.
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9:19 pm on Oct. 26, 2006 | Joined: Sep. 2005 | Days Active: 667
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exceedinglyrare
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I'm old school. When I'm speaking, I don't care as much, but in my writing, unless I'm writing dialogue, it always defaults to "he" or "one" and other such pronouns. Still, language is consistently growing and changing, and I would not be surprised if the rules someday changed to include using "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun.
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Quote: from TheOtherHorseman at 9:07 am on Sep. 28, 2006
It fills a little hole in the language to use "they" in that fashion. Granted, it is improper use, but the reasoning behind it is sound. In everyday conversation it is a way to refer to a gender non-specific hypothetical person without excessive formality. Behold! Formal: "If one was to punch a gorilla it is likely that one would soon become sad." Casual: "If someone punched a gorilla, they'd totally get their shit kicked in."
Indeed. I avoid writing "they" at all costs if I am talking in the singular, replacing it with "one" or inclusing both the gender singular forms. In conventional conversation it's just easier to say "they".
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11:32 pm on Oct. 27, 2006 | Joined: Jan. 2005 | Days Active: 1,429
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MourningAir
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I was under the impression that gender-neutral singular defaulted to either "he" or "he/she."
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