The organizations they warn against ARE the terrible ones. I've known people who have gone to places like "Birthright" just wanting a pregnancy test and really are basically assaulted with "God loves you!" "Don't tear apart your baby!" "They'll rip it limb from limb!" "Blood!" "Gore!!" "Pain!" non-stop. That's not helpful to a scared woman who's just looking for a few answers. They AREN'T truthful in the information they give. They'll basically tell you that abortion is FAR more dangerous than giving birth and you're VERY likely to end up infertile or physically damaged if you get even one abortion. Neither of these are true at all. So I don't see the problem warning against things like that.

Nor do I see the problem in pushing people to ask questions. Those are the questions you SHOULD be asking yourself before you make a decision.

- Am I ready to be a parent?
- Do I even WANT to be a parent?
- Am I financially stable?
- What about my relationship?

Things like that. You talk about using biased language, well using the wording "the fetus will be killed" immediately turns people against abortion. Abortion IS ending the pregnancy, again I don't see a problem with wording it as such but I do see a problem with inflammatory language like "death" "killed" "murdered" etc.

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Holly.
Mama to Hunter Kai.
[ myspace | my lj ]

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Abortion IS ending the pregnancy, again I don't see a problem with wording it as such but I do see a problem with inflammatory language like "death" "killed" "murdered" etc.

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But the fetus IS killed. Why on earth would anyone omit that little fact?

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dunebug:

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Abortion IS ending the pregnancy, again I don't see a problem with wording it as such but I do see a problem with inflammatory language like "death" "killed" "murdered" etc.  

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But the fetus IS killed. Why on earth would anyone omit that little fact?

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Some people don't see the fetus as being "killed".  They don't believe the fetus was ever alive in the first place.  They believe, for example, that a fetus is simply a fetus until the umbilical cord is cut and it's living on it's own.  Which would in turn make it a baby - not a fetus anymore.

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When God gives you lemons...
Find a new God.
My BlogSpot

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Some people don't see the fetus as being "killed".

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Some people don't see the Earth as (approximately) spherically shaped, either.

Some people don't see the Holocaust as 'real', either.

Do government services give a shit in either case? Do public schools omit the above facts, simply because there is 'controversy'? Are you willing to treat all opinions as equally valid, simply because there is disagreement regarding the issues?

It is a fact that the fetus fits the definition of a separate, living entity. To deny this merely demonstrates that one is grasping at straws in order to justify the termination of the fetus.

In case you haven't worked out what I'm trying to say, I'll put it even more simply: I'm right, you're wrong.

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In case you haven't worked out what I'm trying to say, I'll put it even more simply: I'm right, you're wrong.

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Then you're a mass murderer. I can only imagine the number of living creatures that you've killed in your years alive. Ants, bugs, spiders, germs. Every time you sneeze or have a cold or walk on the ground, you're killing things that were alive.

Congrats. Turn yourself in to police now.

In case you haven't figured it out, it's inflammatory language, nothing more. I'm right, you're stupid and wrong and so biased that you can't even see the forest through the trees.

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Holly.
Mama to Hunter Kai.
[ myspace | my lj ]

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 Some people don't see the fetus as being "killed".  

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Some people don't see the Earth as (approximately) spherically shaped, either.

Some people don't see the Holocaust as 'real', either.

Do government services give a shit in either case? Do public schools omit the above facts, simply because there is 'controversy'? Are you willing to treat all opinions as equally valid, simply because there is disagreement regarding the issues?

It is a fact that the fetus fits the definition of a separate, living entity. To deny this merely demonstrates that one is grasping at straws in order to justify the termination of the fetus.

In case you haven't worked out what I'm trying to say, I'll put it even more simply: I'm right, you're wrong.

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Excuse me?  What you just said is so unbelievably immature I feel like I'm speaking to an awry 5-year-old.

It's their opinion.  And you know why they think it?

Because while the fetus is in the womb it is LIVING OFF OF THE MOTHER.  Just as other organisms do.  Such as shit... tape worms.  Does that mean that the tape worm is living and the person isn't allowed to get it taken out of them?

See, the thing with it is I'm prochoice.  HOWEVER, I 100% do NOT agree with getting an abortion after week 22, for that's when the fetus has a chance of living on it's own.  Before week 22 it's an organism feeding off of the mother.  But after the 22nd week, it's all in.  

Anyways, I don't care if you take what I say to heart, I respect your opinions on this subject just as you should respect mine.  I understand you think you're right and I'm wrong, that's cool, just don't boast about it.  It completely tears down your side of the argument and makes you look foolish.  Other than saying that, you put up a good argument.  But try to leave the catty behavior out of it in the next reply you make.  (And I'm not trying to be a bitch at all, I'm actually trying to compliment you while criticizing you).

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When God gives you lemons...
Find a new God.
My BlogSpot

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Then you're a mass murderer. I can only imagine the number of living creatures that you've killed in your years alive. Ants, bugs, spiders, germs. Every time you sneeze or have a cold or walk on the ground, you're killing things that were alive.  

Congrats. Turn yourself in to police now.

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Wow, you truly are an idiot. Please, can someone rescind her intellectual status? The fact that we allow people with Down Syndrome post on this subforum diminishes its status an a haven for intellectuals.

Tell you what, dune. If you can find me stating anywhere in my previous post that abortion was murder and/or that the fetus is the equivalent of a bacteria (or the other shit you posted) I will beg for forgiveness and close my account.

Because, correct me if I'm wrong, all I stated was that abortion killed the fetus. But then again, I'm sure you know better than me what I posted.

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In case you haven't figured it out, it's inflammatory language,

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No, it's a fact. The PP site completely neglects to mention what happens to the fetus once it is expelled from the uterus. Don't you think that such a detail is important? Why would PP omit this fact?

Post edited at 4:57 pm on Mar. 20, 2008 by mountain hare

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Because while the fetus is in the womb it is LIVING OFF OF THE MOTHER.  Just as other organisms do.

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Humans are parasitic on their parents long after they are born, usually into their teen years. So fucking what? You wouldn't shoot a baby suckling at its mother's teat would a BB gun, would you?

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Does that mean that the tape worm is living and the person isn't allowed to get it taken out of them?

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Are you implying that a tape worm is not alive?

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Anyways, I don't care if you take what I say to heart, I respect your opinions on this subject just as you should respect mine

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No, I don't have to respect your opinion. That's utter shit. I do have to respect your RIGHT to have and express your opinion, though. There's a (not-so) subtle difference.

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Wow, you truly are an idiot. Please, can someone rescind her intellectual status? The fact that we allow people with Down Syndrome post on this subforum diminishes its status an a haven for intellectuals.

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Resulting to childish insults doesn't much support your side. I don't really view you as an intellectual considering you're insisting that a fetus in a separate person and apparently should have the rights as such and completely ignoring the language on the site.  Thank you for insulting all people with mental disabilities and Downs though. That really shows how mature and intellectual you are. *wink*

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Tell you what, dune. If you can find me stating anywhere in my previous post that abortion was murder and/or that the fetus is the equivalent of a bacteria (or the other shit you posted) I will beg for forgiveness and close my account.

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It is a fact that the fetus fits the definition of a separate, living entity.

But the fetus IS killed.

That pretty much suggests that you're pushing the abortion = murder angle as well as the whole "it's it's own person!!" schtick which is tired and done. It gets a bit old when people are all "killed!! Killled!!!!!!" and then try to act like they're not preaching that it's murder. If you're going to harp on the fact that it's it's own "person" who was alive and is "killed" then you must in turn believe that it's murder.  

The fetus is a little parasite that leeches off it's mother and cannot even survive outside of the womb until a bit over halfway through the pregnancy and even then the odds are terrible until around 28 weeks at least. It's not it's own person. And if you want to argue law, a fetus is not it's own person there either. I believe Bush tried to have that law passed where the fetus would be elevated to have citizenship, but it got shot down because it's fucking retarded.  

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No, it's a fact. The PP site completely neglects to mention what happens to the fetus once it is expelled from the uterus. Don't you think that such a detail is important? Why would PP omit this fact?

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1) Because it probably varies from doctor's office to doctor's office. There is no one general sense.

2) I've seen sites for all types of medical surgeries and procedures. I haven't seen one that tells you what happens to your appendix after an appendectomy, or your placenta after delivery, or your wisdom teeth after removal or your foreskin after circumcision. I could go on. It's not some shiftiness at work, that's completely normal to only detail the procedure on the website.  

If you're that curious to know, you need to take it upon yourself to ask.

Post edited at 10:44 pm on Mar. 20, 2008 by dunebug

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Holly.
Mama to Hunter Kai.
[ myspace | my lj ]

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 It is a fact that the fetus fits the definition of a separate, living entity.

But the fetus IS killed.

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- Most abortions (>>90%) happens at the embryonic stage, not in the fetal stage.
- The embryo is not a separate living entity since it depends strictly on the body of the mother.
- If abortion is murder and wrong, then removing a cancerous tumor is murder and wrong. Both are alive, human, have their own metabolism and specific genetic configuration.
- Blobs of cells are not persons; the cerebral cortex does not begin to function until weeks 20-24.

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

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Resulting to childish insults doesn't much support your side.

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Oh, silly girl. I don't resort to insults to 'support my side'. I resort to insults to show my complete and utter disdain for you, and your shitty argumentation.

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That pretty much suggests that you're pushing the abortion = murder angle as well as the whole "it's it's own person!!" schtick which is tired and done.

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No it doesn't.

All I stated was that the fetus (or embryo, if you wish) is killed, and questioned why Planned Parenthood would neglect to mention such a thing. I made no comments whatsoever regarding personhood or murder. So yeah, you're attacking a straw man.

SO I guess it is true, they do encourage abortions. That is just wrong. Like it has already been said, if you choose to have sex, then you choose to take a risk and deal with it.

I don't care if you are young. These days most 5-6 year old kids know about sex and how babies are born. So there is no excuse.

If a woman is raped then of course she doesn't want it, although I saw something a few years back on 20/20 or dateline or something about a woman who was raped when her husband was away in the military. When she told him he was pregnant, he was excited, but then he realized that the time didn't match up (i.e. sex).
So he thought she cheated, but she told him she was raped. They decided to keep the child; it is their only child; a son. He's now like 17 or 18. He loves his son no matter what and she loves her son; I mean it is still a part of her.
So one day they decided to tell him the truth and he was shocked and angry for a long time. But then he said that he loved and respected his dad and that he loved him and he is his true dad no matter what. And he said he loved and respected his mother because he knows she could have aborted him (and at one time she wanted to).

And he's a great guy who respects women and he does good in school.

So that just shows you don't have to always turn to abortions because look, even out of something bad (rape, unplanned pregnancy, etc.), God can make a miracle.

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SO I guess it is true, they do encourage abortions. That is just wrong.

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Why is it wrong for an abortion clinic to encourage abortions?

That's like saying, "It's wrong for McDonald's to encourage people to buy fries" or "It's wrong for Domino's to promote pizza."

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You just might break through
To ever ever after

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All I stated was that the fetus (or embryo, if you wish) is killed, and questioned why Planned Parenthood would neglect to mention such a thing. I made no comments whatsoever regarding personhood or murder. So yeah, you're attacking a straw man.

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Then you're stating that every thing that could be considered a human being put to waste is killing.

If that's how you see it, you better stop ejaculating and killing your sperm which could be future children.

Also, you better start going against birth control since that rids of the egg which also could be future children.

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When God gives you lemons...
Find a new God.
My BlogSpot