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As for the rest, this is only one study

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Quote: from samzkuul at 1:07 pm on Mar. 16, 2008

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Gun control for all except police and that sort of thing. If nobody's allowed to have a gun, nobody's gonna have one to shoot, therefore nobody needs one for protection against something that's impossible.

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Flawed theory, criminals still get guns because they disregard the law completely. There are more civilians around then police, and police aren't always get there in time it stop a situation from escalating from bad to worse. People that get a CCW and are responsible can not only defend themselves, but others.

You should read the Gun Control Fact Sheet, that'll clear some numbers in your head.

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* Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. The results of the study showed:

* States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%;29 and

* If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.30

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http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

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Many "criminals" get their firearms from people who purchase them legally and then sell them in the city.

And while noone disputes that crime may have gone down when some laws were instituted, it doesn't mention that crime also went down in many other states without allowing people to conceal weapons. Crime has had periods of increase and decrease, unrelated to these laws. You have to look at other causes (such as them failing to mention increases in budgets for police and educational systems). They quite often leave out data, leading you to believe that the concealed weapon laws lead to decreased crime, when in reality it's just a spurrious correlation.

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Many "criminals" get their firearms from people who purchase them legally and then sell them in the city.

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Many "criminals" get their firearms from people who purchase them legally and then sell them in the city.

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Where's this statistc located?

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And while noone disputes that crime may have gone down when some laws were instituted, it doesn't mention that crime also went down in many other states without allowing people to conceal weapons. Crime has had periods of increase and decrease, unrelated to these laws. You have to look at other causes (such as them failing to mention increases in budgets for police and educational systems). They quite often leave out data, leading you to believe that the concealed weapon laws lead to decreased crime, when in reality it's just a spurrious correlation.

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You clearly failed to read the fact sheet. Take England for example.

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* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997. 18 And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nation including the United States.19

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY

The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.153

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Where's this statistc located?  

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The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.153

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Quote: from jakelong at 5:46 pm on Mar. 25,  you dont need stats you just need to open your eyes and live where i live and you see it.

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Facts > Speculation

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The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.153 ok well maybe they were low bec in Europe its not like theres 9 guns for every 10 citizen

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You aren't very persuasive.

Post edited at 5:55 pm on Mar. 25, 2008 by Dont Tell

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I want you to want me, love
Saturdays = Youth, I love M83

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Facts > Speculation  

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You aren't very persuasive.

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Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives ("ATF") to disclose information it maintains in the National Tracing Center's firearms trace database, elected officials, policy makers, reporters, academics, and the rest of us were able to discover information such as:

Almost 60% of crime guns originate with only 1% of the Nation's licensed gun dealers.

30% of traced crime guns move so quickly from licensed gun dealers into crime that they likely have been trafficked from dealers.

Handguns sold in multiple sales account for 20% of traced crime guns.

In cities and states with strong gun laws, crime guns frequently originate with licensed gun dealers in other states, thus showing that strong gun laws make it more difficult for criminals to access local sources of guns.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/what-are-the-gun-pushers-_b_40576.html


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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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well im doing a speech tomorrow and i have chosen the stance that we should be allowed to carry concealed weapons.  It has been proven that states that allow people to carry handguns result in less crime.  In one school shooting the number of deaths was 21, in my stance if students were allowed to carry guns there would be 1 death instead of 21.  Colleges are stingy and do not hire more armed security guards.  

 
BELOW Please state YOUR stance and a brief reason WHY.  I hope i can learn something from you all for my speech  

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Wait a minute. All of the information I've heard about that came from Lott who literally made up data and when statisticians tried to repeat his work, they always come up with different answers.

You need to prove independent of Lott's phony data that concealed weapons actually lower crime.

You need some real hardcore stats analysis (not political crap) to support your basic claim before you go anywhere. And if there are intelligent people who understand macro factors, you're going to have to prove that it was concealed firearms rather than some other factor or factors.

Good luck with that.

Post edited at 6:33 pm on Mar. 25, 2008 by obvious child

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"Well this is new....and scary" - Serena on a Convent Scarab

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Quote: from jakelong at 6:27 pm on Mar. 25, 2008Quote: from Dont Tell at 5:52 pm on Mar. 25, 2008 Facts > Speculation Facts on the street > stats and studies by suit and tie in ivory tower.

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Do you even know how statistics work?

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I don't care about that. I am not the one making up shit like concealed weapons make crime go down based on one measely study.

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You sir are a dumbass.

Post edited at 6:33 pm on Mar. 25, 2008 by Dont Tell

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I want you to want me, love
Saturdays = Youth, I love M83

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Do you even know how statistics work? .

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Heres more since you cant read areshole

http://www.bradycampaign.com/xshare/pdf/reports/giw.pdf

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Crime gun trace data has provided powerful evidence of the gun industry's complicity in fueling the illegal market, showing that thousands of guns move quickly from a relatively small number of licensed gun dealers into the illegal market. Indeed, almost 60% of the crime guns traced in a given year were sold by only 1% of the licensed firearms dealers, while about 85% of gun dealers had no traces at all.  

The gun industry knows who the high-trace dealers are, but has refused to stop selling
them guns or force them to reform. As a result, felons and other prohibited purchasers have been supplied the tools of violence - aided and abetted by careless or corrupt dealers. Our nation suffers from the violent gun crime that ensues.

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Post edited at 6:37 pm on Mar. 25, 2008 by jakelong

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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I'm sure the founding fathers did not foresee automatic weapons or weapons of today's caliber being in the hands of citizens. I also doubt they could have anticipated the atrocious crime rates.

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Yes, very true, but the Bill Of Rights, as well as the Supreme court state it is our right to own guns. I personally believe there is no need for any citizen to own an automatic weapon of any caliber, but that shouldn't stop legal, law abiding citizens from carrying a concealed weapon for their own protection.

As far as this discussion goes, I'm done with it.

Post edited at 6:40 pm on Mar. 25, 2008 by Dont Tell

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I want you to want me, love
Saturdays = Youth, I love M83

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that shouldn't stop legal, law abiding citizens from carrying a concealed weapon for their own protection.  

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