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  LiveWire / Teen Forums / The Intellectual Forum / Viewing Topic

Anti-matter
Replies: 32Last Post Dec. 23, 2007 10:20pm by smartlake
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tell me again


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Quote: from motorhead at 11:48 am on Aug. 24, 2007

Well, as many of you are probably aware, anti-matter is the opposite of all matter. When anti-matter combines with its counterpart, both are converted into pure energy.

So, since everything has its anti-matter equivalent, does that then mean that there are opposites of all of us? In kind of a shadow-world? Are the opposites of us living and breathing? If we die, do they die, too?


There are too many variables to begin debating anything here. The nature of anti-matter hasn't been established. And in any case, what form do "opposites" take anyway?  I mean, say there was an opposite of me, an anti-me, what the hell does that even mean? And can anti-me be defined as living in the first place if it was so anti to everything that I am?


7:08 am on Aug. 27, 2007 | Joined June 2006 | 438 Days Active
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Iblis


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No.

That falls under a multiverse theory.

Please read up on what antimatter is.

There is no possible way for there to be 'shadows' of us, simply for the sake of its existence.

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3:00 am on Aug. 28, 2007 | Joined Sep. 2005 | 12 Days Active
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swya


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Antimatter isn't, strictly speaking, opposite-matter.  Antimatter extends the theory of antiparticles, whereas the antiparticle is, as previously stated in this thread, one with an opposite charge.

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7:48 am on Aug. 29, 2007 | Joined Aug. 2007 | 52 Days Active
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Peregrine


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Quote: from medjai at 4:41 pm on Aug. 24, 2007

Actually Peregrine the new Supernova they found that is over 100x brighter than any previous supernova ever and way more powerful is believed to have been an "antimatter factory."

Anyway I knew my shadow was hiding something.


Is that so? Interesting. Well, there you have it.

All arguments aside, there is still much to be studied; anti-matter and its role in our universe is still largely undiscovered. Anti-matter's a nifty thing, but its practical use remains limited (God-willing in the future a new energy source).

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7:05 pm on Aug. 30, 2007 | Joined July 2004 | 354 Days Active
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holysaiyan1


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The reason our universe is mostly matter is because of something called "baryon asymmetry".  For some reason, no atom of antimatter larger or more complex than an anti-helium atom (1 anti-proton, 1 anti-neutron, orbited by 1 positron) has ever been observed in nature.

Scientists believe that our universe either was born with laws such that positive matter was more likely to exist than negative matter, or that it started out perfectly in balance and something happened to shift the laws such that matter was preferred.

With that in mind, think about the "many-worlds" model of quantum physics.  If our universe's laws settled such that matter was preferred over antimatter, then it stands to reason that there is are parallel universes in which antimatter is dominant.  

From that set of universes in which antimatter dominants, there is likely to be at least one in which the laws of physics are suitable for intelligent life to develop at some point.  

Pare down the set of antimatter-dominant, intelligent life-supporting universe to those in which the Sol system developed in a manner similar to ours, and pare that set to the universes in which the antimatter-composed you exists.

Basically, when you deal with the fact that there are an infinity of parallel universes that exists, anything you can think of, or can't think of, is real.  

 

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8:33 pm on Aug. 30, 2007 | Joined Jan. 2006 | 431 Days Active
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I don't believe so. If there are opposites, it would be at an atomic level. There'd be nothing forcing one anti-atom of myself from being fused to the next anti-atom of myself. For there to be an exact opposite of myself would require some kind of mirrored quantum superposition on a massive scale (at least, that's the only way I can envisage it) which would defy the laws of physics as we have come to understand them to date.

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The way I understand it is thus:

Theoretically, during the big bang an equal amount of matter and anti-matter was created.

And while there may be and anti-particle for every particle, that doesn't necessarily mean that the anti-particles are joined together the same way as particles.  Which means there may or may not be an anti-you. I think I saw someone else say something to that effect early on the forum.


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tell me again


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Quote: from holysaiyan1 at 8:33 pm on Aug. 30, 2007


If our universe's laws settled such that matter was preferred over antimatter, then it stands to reason that there is are parallel universes in which antimatter is dominant.  

From that set of universes in which antimatter dominants, there is likely to be at least one in which the laws of physics are suitable for intelligent life to develop at some point.
 


Why should a universe where anti-matter is dominant stand to reason at all? Why must there be a mirror-image?

Why would there be a "set of universes" where anti-matter dominates? This universe where matter dominates is just one (as far as we know). So why would there be more than 1 anti-matter universes?


5:19 pm on Oct. 27, 2007 | Joined June 2006 | 438 Days Active
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norock


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Quote: from Peregrine at 3:47 pm on Aug. 24, 2007

No. Matter existing does not necessitate an anti-matter counterpart.  

In fact, naturally occurring anti-matter has only been observed in minute quantities.


incorrect... to a certain degree
antimatter has been OBSERVED to a great degree in the vacuum of space, and in the horizon of black holes [i say observed, not examined]

also, i've had the privilege to speak with prof. jeffrey Hangst -coordinator of Project Alpha at CERN. Apparently they have gotten their Antiproton -or anti hydrogen as the case may be- Decelerator. running so that they may produce ready amounts of antiprotons for  studies.

they have been working on an electromagnetic trap for these anti-hydrogen atoms for some time, and it seems they've come farther in the last year than they have forseen.

dont expect to see antimatter driven ships anytime soon, but dont be surprised if wired leaks some interesting stuff about new energy sources for the future.

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10:22 pm on Dec. 15, 2007 | Joined Dec. 2006 | 341 Days Active
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"Anti-" is just a property of some particles, like you can get "up" and "down" (and so on) quarks. A positron is just an electron but with a positive charge instead of a negative one.

That doesn't mean there is any connection between normal particles and anti-particles.

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6:52 am on Dec. 16, 2007 | Joined June 2004 | 945 Days Active
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holysaiyan1


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Quote: from tell me again at 8:19 pm on Oct. 27, 2007

Quote: from holysaiyan1 at 8:33 pm on Aug. 30, 2007


If our universe's laws settled such that matter was preferred over antimatter, then it stands to reason that there are parallel universes in which antimatter is dominant.

Why should a universe where anti-matter is dominant stand to reason at all? Why must there be a mirror-image?

Why would there be a "set of universes" where anti-matter dominates? This universe where matter dominates is just one (as far as we know). So why would there be more than 1 anti-matter universes?


Okay, let me work you through this.  According to the many-worlds school of quantum theory, when you, a particle, or anything else really, has a choice, the universe splits off.  In one universe, you made Decision A.  However, for each possible decision, a new universe is split off from the "main" one.  As far as each "you" knows, they are the only one.  But, zooming out to the Big Picture, there are many "you's," one for each possible outcome of every decision you've ever made.  

There may be universes that differ just very slightly from this one, where you decided to wear a red shirt instead of the blue one you're wearing now.  There may be universes where you are dead, because a decision you made earlier in your life turned out to be fatal.  

Every outcome made by actions of everything in the universe, from subatomic particles to entire galaxies, splits off a new universe.  It's like the old Yogi Berra quote, "when you come to a fork in the road, take it."  With the many-world interpretation, you can, and do without even thinking about it.  

Because of the baryon asymmetry that our universe has, obviously there is more observed matter than antimatter.  Since matter can not be created, that means that when the Big Bang happened, much more matter came out of that than antimatter.  This process of creation is known as "baryogenesis."  When baryogenesis occurs, by all rights, the result should be 50% matter and 50% antimatter, since there are only two choices: matter or antimatter.  However, the observational results obviously don't line with this, as our electrons are negatively charges and our protons are positively charged.

Because of some as-yet-unknown reason, the baryogenesis that occurred at T=0 (read: the beginning of time) was set off-balance ever so slightly, and for every twenty billion particles and antiparticles, one extra particle was made.  The ten billion particles and ten billion antiparticles annihilated each other, but the unpaired particles remained (as they did not have a partner), and the result is all around you.

Okay, now to tie it in to many-worlds theory.  That imbalance in the baryogenesis was caused by something.  It had an outcome.  According to many-worlds, if you have a universe in which one outcome occurs--just like when you decided to put on the red shirt earlier on in my explanation--universes split off in which the outcome was different.  

There are universes in which exactly equal amounts of matter and antimatter were created.  In these, there is nothing but photons and other backwash results of matter-antimatter annihilation.  Finally, since the other possible value for the imbalance is for the imbalance to cause antimatter to be favored, there are universes that are primarily antimatter.

There are three possible coarse values for the baryogenesis imbalance to have taken: positive (matter-favoring), zero (there is no imbalance, the amount of matter created equals the amount of antimatter created), and negative (antimatter-favoring).  

At least three different universes were created as soon as the clock started running, due to the aforementioned imbalance.  From these three, the set of all possible universes evolved.  Therefore, I submit that at least one-third of all the universes are antimatter-dominant, because of a simple analysis of the "fork in the road" that the universe took at T=0.  

Sorry for the long post, but you asked me a complex question, and I had to give a quick lesson in many-worlds theory, as well as baryogenesis.



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2:43 pm on Dec. 16, 2007 | Joined Jan. 2006 | 431 Days Active
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norock


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one little note on that subject [you were mostly right, except one little thing]
the parallel universe thing is not only when YOU make a decision be it small or large, it is the assumption that anything that can happen  will and has happened so that. an air molecule may move this way or that and the universe splits off, a person may breathe right now, or wait a second, you may look left, or right,

any possible event will happen and does happen.

the greatest evidence for this lies in the theory of The big bang. according to some theorists, the big bang was the result of our empty, energy-less univers colliding [theoretically universes are wavelike in motion due to energy disturbances] with another well suited universe, so that for a time energy was transferred with such a force that it was sent into enormous accelleration.

personally, i enjoy the Asimovian theory [not quite a theory, but a nice piece of literature] presented in the short story "the last question"

its a quick read and its WELL worth it. give that a read if you want something to think about

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3:11 pm on Dec. 16, 2007 | Joined Dec. 2006 | 341 Days Active
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norock


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whoops misread what you wrote, looks like you got that point in yours as well, disregard my critique, instead i offer it as support

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Alan18


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Quote: from motorhead at 3:48 pm on Aug. 24, 2007

Well, as many of you are probably aware, anti-matter is the opposite of all matter. When anti-matter combines with its counterpart, both are converted into pure energy.

So, since everything has its anti-matter equivalent, does that then mean that there are opposites of all of us? In kind of a shadow-world? Are the opposites of us living and breathing? If we die, do they die, too?


Pretty awsome stuff lol
At least that's what I know from ANGELS AND DEMONS
woot

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Antimatter existance is extremely disproportionate, compared to matter. There just isn't a lot of it out there, and the little that can be found is effectively annihilated rather quickly in most settings.

"If they die, we die" is retarded, though. Since there is not a particle of antimatter for every particle of matter (but rather, much less), it's absurd to think there is a relation between a given set of particles of matter and a given set of particles of antimatter. Further, when we die, our matter is still right there.

Oh, and to be more precise, the matter/antimatter annihilation results in photons.


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