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  LiveWire / Teen Forums / The Intellectual Forum / Viewing Topic

Free will
note I wrote on Facebook
Replies: 8Last Post Dec. 25, 2007 11:49am by Mabzie
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( pateslick )


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I wrote this note on facebook, and it generated quite a lot of interest. 46 comments in fact.

I see two reasons why free will might not exist.

The first is this: People make decisions based on their genetics (temperament, intelligence, etc), and also based on their environment (the decision they are making and the circumstances under which they are making.) Since people ultimately control neither their genetics nor their environment. How can they really be blamed for anything they do? and furthermore, how can the have free will.

The second is this: If there really is a God (and I believe there is, but bare with me if you don't) and that God knows everything, that means that he even knows the future. If God knows the future, and god is never wrong, that means the future is unchangeable, it is already set in stone, its static. Then no matter what we do we can't change it. If we can't control our own future, do we really have free will at all?


6:21 pm on Oct. 28, 2007 | Joined May 2007 | 64 Days Active
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rcduggan


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the second reason does make a lot of sense.. that everything we do we were always destined to do, and even if we think we are doing something different to "change" out destiny, it is in fact what were meant to do.

yes.

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...in the village.
Or not. But have fun in life.


6:23 pm on Oct. 28, 2007 | Joined April 2007 | 309 Days Active
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TheGuru


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and that is one of the big reasons why i don't beleive in god

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"When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion.
When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism."-Edward Abbey

10:22 pm on Oct. 28, 2007 | Joined Jan. 2005 | 45 Days Active
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chainsmokingprincess


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I agree wholeheartedly. especially since taking sociology has taught me that every single thing we do is influenced by someone outside of us. No one is unique to having great and genius thoughts and ideas. They got it from somewhere else. And to me, it all goes back to the 'why do I even bother' nihilist thinking. So, for the most part, I try to focus on the things in life that make me even a little bit happy.

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"I like to think that pain is what forces us to grow."

4:25 pm on Oct. 29, 2007 | Joined Jan. 2007 | 14 Days Active
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Major


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I know several atheist that, in fact, believe that the universe doesn't allow space for free will. That the way everything is arranged is just so, and there is no way that humans can escape their fate.

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Am I living in rhyme?

12:45 pm on Nov. 11, 2007 | Joined Aug. 2007 | 237 Days Active
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Wilder


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The first is this: People make decisions based on their genetics (temperament, intelligence, etc), and also based on their environment (the decision they are making and the circumstances under which they are making.) Since people ultimately control neither their genetics nor their environment. How can they really be blamed for anything they do? and furthermore, how can the have free will.

I generally use an argument very similar to this to justify my beliefs in hard determinism (though I would replace what you termed "genetics" with temperament, which would be a composite of biological factors and past experiences).

One could argue that individuals cannot then be blamed for what they do; regardless of that fact I believe that individuals should still be held accountable for their actions. While circumstances entirely outside of my control might lead me to rape someone, I should still be held accountable as if I had free will, because this encourages better behavior in others. Playing of my temperament point, particularly the past experiences, when people are socialized in a society where certain actions are taboo and those who commit them are sanctioned, they are less likely to commit those actions.

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"Drop to your knees and direct your mouth to my crotch."
-Trent


4:07 pm on Nov. 11, 2007 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 635 Days Active
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kenflyken


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If our fates cannot be changed, whether because the fact that we are controlled by our environment, genetic factors, or God, then how are our fates determined?  

Tracing back to the dawn of life, when our ancestors, single-celled creatures were still bobbing around in murky waters, was life pre-determined back then?  You can always argue that genetics, survival for the fittest, and evolution had brought us to the present, but don't you wonder whether if there is a higher purpose behind it?  But then, if there is no God (I'm an atheist as well), then what explanation can we give to the higher purpose?  

There is a beginning, so there must be an end as well.  If fate has determined every single moment from beginning to end, then what is the end?

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I hate quotations.  Tell me what you know.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson


2:03 am on Nov. 12, 2007 | Joined April 2007 | 53 Days Active
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Wilder


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There is a beginning, so there must be an end as well.  If fate has determined every single moment from beginning to end, then what is the end?

We do not know that there was a beginning. We assume so because of how we perceive reality, but we have no way of knowing. The presence of a beginning does not necessitate an end.

Determinism doesn't necessarily have anything to do with fate. I'm a hard determinist, but I don't believe in fate.

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"Drop to your knees and direct your mouth to my crotch."
-Trent


10:08 am on Nov. 12, 2007 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 635 Days Active
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Mabzie


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Do we have freewill?

If we don't, how can we tell?

Do the people in the Sims know that they're being controlled by us?

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i heard u leik zerglings


11:49 am on Dec. 25, 2007 | Joined Nov. 2004 | 696 Days Active
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