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Quote: from The Raven at 5:04 am on July 2, 2008

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And I feel the same way about theists who push their religion on me.  
 But, I am an atheist, and I do not push my beliefs on anyone else. I think you should stop being so judgmental and generalizing. Kudos to me.

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Did you read the rest of his post? Specifically:

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and i think people who believe in god shouldn't try to make people feel bad because they don't

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That wasn't there when I replied to the post. The OP went back and edited it later.

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Bring me my monocle. I want to look rich.

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Quote: from The Raven at 4:41 am on July 2, 2008

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Quote: from Contempt at 5:11 am on July 2, 2008

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Quote: from xoxo1234 at 10:06 am on July 2, 2008

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Theists have to stop telling me I'm going to hell.

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  but you are going to hell according to their religion..

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 But there is no need, at all, for them to repeatedly shove that in anyone's face as soon as they find out that the person is not the same religion as they are. They grab hold of that first amendment right and use it to harass people as much as the law allows them to. Just look at the Westboro Baptist members. That's exactly what they do.

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Are you saying that the WBC members reflect the way that theists act?

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Not at all, but they were one example of the extremists I was referring to that came to mind.

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Bring me my monocle. I want to look rich.

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 9:10 am on July 2, 2008

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Quote: from The Raven at 4:41 am on July 2, 2008

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Quote: from Contempt at 5:11 am on July 2, 2008

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Quote: from xoxo1234 at 10:06 am on July 2, 2008

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Theists have to stop telling me I'm going to hell.

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   but you are going to hell according to their religion..

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  But there is no need, at all, for them to repeatedly shove that in anyone's face as soon as they find out that the person is not the same religion as they are. They grab hold of that first amendment right and use it to harass people as much as the law allows them to. Just look at the Westboro Baptist members. That's exactly what they do.

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Are you saying that the WBC members reflect the way that theists act?

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Not at all, but they were one example of the extremists I was referring to that came to mind.

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and if a god who loves everyone is going to send you to burn in hell for all of eternity for using logic, reason, and lack of evidence to deny his existance then is he really worth worshiping?

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Quote: from Molbi at 2:44 pm on July 2, 2008

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and if a god who loves everyone is going to send you to burn in hell for all of eternity for using logic, reason, and lack of evidence to deny his existence then is he really worth worshiping?

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I don't know about burning in hell for all of eternity, but if you deny His existence, why would He invite you into His home?

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The thing is that he does invite everyone. Everyone is aware of his message. So the reason is not that people deny his existence, or the existence of his invitation, it's just that they find no reason to go to the party. Or that the invitation letter is a real one.
What would he do to the indians in the Amazon who according to your version never head of Jesus Christ?
You don't know this part, but you know vehemently, that if people nod at Jesus, they will get to go into his house? Why selective certainty? Why 'dunno about hell' but ' Oh yes Heaven... certainly.'?
Is it because you see no downside to the latter? Why should your seeing a downside in the first decrease the fact that it does exist? It is, after all, in his book, in his invitation. What is the reason you chose to go?
Also, we don't DENY his existence, we just don't see why he should exist, and why his existence would have ultimate impact in the survival of our consciousness.
If you tell us why one should do that, so that we can go to his home and party with other ghosts forever, we'd all be much obliged.

Why does he keep people outside of his home? Aren't we his sons and daughters? Shouldn't that allow us to roam the corridors of his house and lay in his bed, by definition?
Why can't people decide to enter his home only after they see it? Why are people pushed into making a decision based only upon his word? Before evidence? Why? Isn't that an indirect selection of people, from his part?

Why should one go after, or believe, in an individual who claims extraordinary things about our future state of happiness, if he provides nothing to convince us?
You trust more the actions of other people than his word.  If it wasn't for the hordes of populations walking behind him, you'd question your thinking about following a man who said the most magnificent things.
Why should one bother to believe that there is a man inviting us to his home, if we even can't see him in the first place?
Does that not demonstrate that there is more of a deeper need, a hole in your mind, to have a home, instead of there being an actual individual out there who desires our company in his house?

Why are those, who prefer to live outside the house, shot from the second floor bedroom window or hit with gasoline and lighters and then proceed to be stabbed and perforated with the pitchforks of insane villagers who are only there because of this house owner's beyond-reasonable-pacifism?

Why are only those who enter the house allowed to survive?
What are they doing which guarantees their survival? The simple fact that they follow?
Why does this house owner put believing in his word above everything else? What does he do that we should have faith on? What are the behaviours of those survivors expressing, which in his mind, does not lead him into the obliteration of the existence of their consciousness?
Why should the existence of a person lay in the hands of the one who has self imposed his authority?

Post edited at 5:58 pm on July 2, 2008 by TooImaginativeTeen

You have decided, apparently, to reject the invitation because your logic tells you He can't exist. I think you're wrong in that belief, but what you believe doesn't affect my belief so I don't feel the need to write long, convoluted posts attempting to change your belief. I'm not sure if your evangelism is based on wanting to spread your 'truth' or if you are looking for someone to convince you of theirs.

Post edited at 6:04 am on July 3, 2008 by Forever Angel

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

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You know, titty, you have a weird habit of getting into these ridiculously long, off-topic rants.

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And you could respond to them since people like you are the reason I write them.
I'm honestly inquiring people out there to adress what I'm saying.
And yet, people come along and call me 'titty'.
When have I done something similar to you? It's such a stupid little reply. Save that to your mind.
Your reponse doesn't enlighten me in any way.

You love to reply things like that. You just love to insult people just a little bit.
Just... stop that. It's such a downside to your personality.

Post edited at 7:57 am on July 3, 2008 by TooImaginativeTeen

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Yes, everyone is invited. Not everyone accepts the invitation. There are some that don't receive their invitations. And there are some that accept the invitation for all the wrong reasons.

You have decided, apparently, to reject the invitation because your logic tells you He can't exist. I think you're wrong in that belief, but what you believe doesn't affect my belief so I don't feel the need to write long, convoluted posts attempting to change your belief. I'm not sure if your evangelism is based on wanting to spread your 'truth' or if you are looking for someone to convince you of theirs.

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Wwhy do you think I'm wrong? Where am I standing that makes you shake your head?

You think I'm wrong because I don't have faith that he exists isn't it?
But why should I? Convince me of that.
I'm not saying I'm going to decline by definition... I'm waiting to be convinced!!!

It's not evangelism, it's wanting people to give me evidence, to convince me to have faith in stuff like that!!!
Why should I take the leap?

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 7:24 pm on July 2, 2008

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You know, titty, you have a weird habit of getting into these ridiculously long, off-topic rants.

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And you could respond to them since people like you are the reason I write them.
I'm honestly inquiring people out there to adress what I'm saying.
And yet, people come along and call me 'titty'.
When have I done something similar to you? It's such a stupid little reply. Save that to your mind.
Your reponse doesn't enlighten me in any way.

You love to reply things like that. You just love to insult people just a little bit.
Just... stop that. It's such a downside to your personality.

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Alternately, you could stay on topic. It would be vastly appreciated. FA answered your questions that were on topic.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:24 pm on July 2, 2008

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Yes, everyone is invited. Not everyone accepts the invitation. There are some that don't receive their invitations. And there are some that accept the invitation for all the wrong reasons.    

 You have decided, apparently, to reject the invitation because your logic tells you He can't exist. I think you're wrong in that belief, but what you believe doesn't affect my belief so I don't feel the need to write long, convoluted posts attempting to change your belief. I'm not sure if your evangelism is based on wanting to spread your 'truth' or if you are looking for someone to convince you of theirs.

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You think I'm wrong in that belief, which isnt' even a belief, but whatever, I'll just go with it.
You think I'm wrong, and yet the only hting that convinces you of that, is your own faith, that is only in your head. Does it surprise you that I don't follow you in that belief? You don't give me things that I can also learn and say, "Why, yes you're right, let us go then, to His home."

Wwhy do you think I'm wrong? Where am I standing that makes you shake your head?

You think I'm wrong because I don't have faith that he exists isn't it?
But why should I? Convince me of that.
I'm not saying I'm going to decline by definition... I'm waiting to be convinced!!!

It's not evangelism, it's wanting people to give me evidence, to convince me to have faith in stuff like that!!!
Why should I take the leap?

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I have no way to convince you that He exists. Just as you have no way to convince me He doesn't. We all choose a path to follow in life and each is different. I can't make you believe in the things I find along my path because your path doesn't have those same things. And when there happens to be similar things, we see them differently. That you haven't found Him along your path doesn't mean He isn't there, only that you haven't seen Him.

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

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Quote: from TooImaginativeTeen at 9:56 am on July 3, 2008

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:24 pm on July 2, 2008

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Yes, everyone is invited. Not everyone accepts the invitation. There are some that don't receive their invitations. And there are some that accept the invitation for all the wrong reasons.

 You have decided, apparently, to reject the invitation because your logic tells you He can't exist. I think you're wrong in that belief, but what you believe doesn't affect my belief so I don't feel the need to write long, convoluted posts attempting to change your belief. I'm not sure if your evangelism is based on wanting to spread your 'truth' or if you are looking for someone to convince you of theirs.

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You think I'm wrong in that belief, which isnt' even a belief, but whatever, I'll just go with it.  
You think I'm wrong, and yet the only hting that convinces you of that, is your own faith, that is only in your head. Does it surprise you that I don't follow you in that belief? You don't give me things that I can also learn and say, "Why, yes you're right, let us go then, to His home."  

Wwhy do you think I'm wrong? Where am I standing that makes you shake your head?  

You think I'm wrong because I don't have faith that he exists isn't it?  
But why should I? Convince me of that.  
I'm not saying I'm going to decline by definition... I'm waiting to be convinced!!!  

It's not evangelism, it's wanting people to give me evidence, to convince me to have faith in stuff like that!!!  
Why should I take the leap?

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If it isn't a belief, what is it? But yes, it's my faith that causes me to believe that you are wrong. That doesn't mean that I think you are a bad person. There may be many things that we might agree on. This just isn't one of them.  

I have no way to convince you that He exists. Just as you have no way to convince me He doesn't. We all choose a path to follow in life and each is different. I can't make you believe in the things I find along my path because your path doesn't have those same things. And when there happens to be similar things, we see them differently. That you haven't found Him along your path doesn't mean He isn't there, only that you haven't seen Him.

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If it isn't a belief...perhaps...a lack of a belief? A hollowness? (though this word might from your point of view make you feel pity for me)
I have never said that "God does not exist". And I don't think any reasonable honest atheist does. I'm just waiting to be convinced. Being neutral, and just thinking it's unlikely that he's there, isn't a belief I'm just waiting for good reasons to why I should have faith, why I should take the leap over my Reason.

"I have no way to convince you that He exists. Just as you have no way to convince me He doesn't."
But I think I could show you why having faith in it is pointless. Of course, for me to advance you have to open the doors. At this moment, and it wouldn't surprise me, at every moment, you are closed to being shaken away from that mental state of having Faith.

Why is it not absurd in your mind to have faith in what I would perceive as tremendous statements about our reality in this existence?
Why does it not sound absurd to you that a man ascended to the atmosphere and, in 30 A.C Palestine, was able to resurrect from a sort of coma?
Doesn't this ring any sort of critical bell?

"And when there happens to be similar things, we see them differently."
But have you noticed that the only reason you see things differently from me, is that you have faith?
If we were both side to side, and we both opened the doors to a street, you'd already be looking about for meanings and messages. I'd just see a street with moving people and stores. Why do you have a "seek for messages" mentality? Why not wait for the opening of the doors, and the inspection of the environment to then decide on what is happening, and what sort of mentality you ought to apply to it to understand it better? Why not start in a neutral state?

It's curious that the only reason you see things differently from me is that you have no evidence(thus faith) that the creator of the universe is communicating with you through your own thoughts and vision.
You think that there is more to life's events. But why is that? What has convinced you that this isn't all just....things happening?

What has made you unite life's events under one big umbrella of supposed understanding? And WHY that umbrella?

"That you haven't found Him along your path doesn't mean He isn't there, only that you haven't seen Him."

But what would make me see? Faith? Well, for that we're back to square one. Why have faith? To see him?(it's starts sounding rather circular) But why should I believe that there is an actual mind enlightening being who can telepathically 'talk' with me in the first place? What authority has given you that conviction? The Bible?

If I were to open my mind I'd immediately open the floodgates of prejudice into my point of view. I'd be looking for things that fit and promote my conviction. I prefer to look first and then have a conviction.
I do not doubt that I would start seeing Him everywhere for him.
to me, that is like conspiracy theorists seeing conspiracy where there is none. They are utterly convinced. They see it! In the Fujifilm Zeppelins and Europe creating the Euro. I have gone through a similar state of mind with another religion, not to mention Conspiracy Theories. I know what it feels like to see, and others not seeing. "Just look! Open your mind!" is what I said. But why should they? What's the reason that they should?

Another thing...why is the god you were taught about, the one you believe in? Don't you think that people who believe in other gods feel as convinced as you that what they're seeing and the lessons that their own god is teaching them through falling leaves or advertisement signs and the speech of others, is real? Don't you think other people are being driven to your God's Hell (but of course Hell is too harsh to be believed in, the Bible must mean something else) and they have the most innocent and honest experiences, more dramatic and emotional than yours, and yet they end up not receiving eternal and heavenly bliss.
How do you answer this without going into vacuous and unsupported thought-experiments?

Post edited at 1:51 pm on July 4, 2008 by TooImaginativeTeen