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  LiveWire / Teen Forums / Religion & Philosophy / Viewing Topic

Disproving All Gods?
Replies: 46 — Last Post July 1 5:16am by DefaultTo0
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HellHound


Dairy Product Addict 		Reply
Quote: from Moridin at 3:03 pm on June 30, 2008
1. Science is justified.
2. Science necessarily presupposes the uniformity of nature.
3. The uniformity of nature is justified (from 1&2).
4. The existence of gods is incompatible with the uniformity of nature.
5. All gods do not exist (from 3&4).

What do you think of this argument?

1) Agree
2) Agree
3) Agree
4) Don't agree
5) Not able to answer.

What do I think of it? You successfully proved #3. #4-5 are incomplete, making your overall arguement incomplete.

The flaw in this arguement is that you've stated there is no evidence supporting the idea of a god. However, you have also given no evidence to support the idea that there is no god. In the end, you've proven that uniformity in nature is justified.



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"eitherway i know my feelings on this are logical
. its common sence" - xdreaxbabyx.

3:57 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Feb. 2008 | 73 Days Active
Join to learn more about HellHound Ontario, Canada | Straight Male | 465 Posts | 1134 Points
( Moridin )


Omnipotent One
Ad Free 		Reply
I've proven that gods negate the uniformity of nature. The existence of gods are incompatible with the uniformity of nature, since they can violate the uniformity of nature at any time without warning due to their transcendence.

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)
4:02 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined April 2006 | 500 Days Active
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | 11131 Posts | 17060 Points
Forever Angel


Sweet Dreams
Sustainer 		Reply
Quote: from Moridin at 5:29 pm on June 30, 2008
Quote: from Forever Angel at 1:08 am on July 1, 2008
What is the 'uniformity of nature' and why is the existence of 'gods' incompatible with it?  

 Oh, and how (why) is science justified?

If science is not justified, why are you using a computer?

Because this computer is available. The fact of the existence of a computer is not a justification of science.
The existence of gods are incompatible with the uniformity of nature, since they can violate the uniformity of nature at any time without warning due to their transcendence.
I'd think that you'd also have to prove that they do violate the uniformity of nature in order for that to work.

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
4:18 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 953 Days Active
Join to learn more about Forever Angel Kansas, United States | Straight Female | 17426 Posts | 33304 Points
( Moridin )


Omnipotent One
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Yes, since the computer was built with science. No, all I have to demonstrate is that theists cannot hold the uniformity of nature as valid, due to the possibility of divine intervention.

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)
4:20 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined April 2006 | 500 Days Active
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | 11131 Posts | 17060 Points
Forever Angel


Sweet Dreams
Sustainer 		Reply
Quote: from Moridin at 6:02 pm on June 30, 2008
I've proven that gods negate the uniformity of nature. The existence of gods are incompatible with the uniformity of nature, since they can violate the uniformity of nature at any time without warning due to their transcendence.
No, Moridin, you haven't proven anything.

Post edited at 4:36 pm on June 30, 2008 by Forever Angel

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

4:20 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 953 Days Active
Join to learn more about Forever Angel Kansas, United States | Straight Female | 17426 Posts | 33304 Points
( Moridin )


Omnipotent One
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How can you hold the uniformity of nature as valid with transcendental entities that can violate it at any moment?

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)
4:23 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined April 2006 | 500 Days Active
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | 11131 Posts | 17060 Points
Forever Angel


Sweet Dreams
Sustainer 		Reply
Quote: from Moridin at 6:23 pm on June 30, 2008
How can you hold the uniformity of nature as valid with transcendental entities that can violate it at any moment?
Have you any examples of that occurring? Maybe the 'uniformity of nature' is part of the 'nature of the gods'. Does your logic take that into account?

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
4:40 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 953 Days Active
Join to learn more about Forever Angel Kansas, United States | Straight Female | 17426 Posts | 33304 Points
( Moridin )


Omnipotent One
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The god of Christianity has violated the uniformity of nature repeatedly. Every miracle is a violation of the uniformity of nature.

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)
4:42 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined April 2006 | 500 Days Active
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | 11131 Posts | 17060 Points
Forever Angel


Sweet Dreams
Sustainer 		Reply
Quote: from Moridin at 6:42 pm on June 30, 2008
The god of Christianity has violated the uniformity of nature repeatedly. Every miracle is a violation of the uniformity of nature.
Why?

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
4:45 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 953 Days Active
Join to learn more about Forever Angel Kansas, United States | Straight Female | 17426 Posts | 33304 Points
( Moridin )


Omnipotent One
Ad Free 		Reply
Quote: from Forever Angel at 2:45 am on July 1, 2008
Quote: from Moridin at 6:42 pm on June 30, 2008
The god of Christianity has violated the uniformity of nature repeatedly. Every miracle is a violation of the uniformity of nature.
Why?

That's the very definition of a miracle.

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

4:59 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined April 2006 | 500 Days Active
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | 11131 Posts | 17060 Points
Forever Angel


Sweet Dreams
Sustainer 		Reply
Quote: from Moridin at 6:59 pm on June 30, 2008
Quote: from Forever Angel at 2:45 am on July 1, 2008
Quote: from Moridin at 6:42 pm on June 30, 2008
The god of Christianity has violated the uniformity of nature repeatedly. Every miracle is a violation of the uniformity of nature.
Why?
That's the very definition of a miracle.
Not really. It's not violating the uniformity of nature. It doesn't even necessarily violate the 'laws' of nature. It's simply something that science may currently (?) have no explanation for.

Is this "uniformity of nature" a new e-mail from atheist.com?

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

5:28 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 953 Days Active
Join to learn more about Forever Angel Kansas, United States | Straight Female | 17426 Posts | 33304 Points
( Moridin )


Omnipotent One
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle

"A miracle, is a fortuitous event believed to be caused by interposition of divine intervention by a supernatural being in the universe by which the ordinary course and operation of Nature is suspended, or modified"

Miracles violate the uniformity of nature.

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

5:30 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined April 2006 | 500 Days Active
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | 11131 Posts | 17060 Points
Forever Angel


Sweet Dreams
Sustainer 		Reply
Quote: from Moridin at 7:30 pm on June 30, 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle  

"A miracle, is a fortuitous event believed to be caused by interposition of divine intervention by a supernatural being in the universe by which the ordinary course and operation of Nature is suspended, or modified"  

Miracles violate the uniformity of nature.

Try a dictionary instead of wiki...  

Miracle: An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God. (emphasis mine)  
http://www.answers.com/miracle&r=67

p.s. "... a fortuitous event believed to be ..."

Post edited at 5:42 pm on June 30, 2008 by Forever Angel

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

5:39 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Dec. 2005 | 953 Days Active
Join to learn more about Forever Angel Kansas, United States | Straight Female | 17426 Posts | 33304 Points
( Moridin )


Omnipotent One
Ad Free 		Reply
If you are using that, then all miracles are unjustified, since it is not the case that something has supernatural origin just because we cannot explain it right now. If all miracles are unjustified, them materialism is true.

Post edited at 5:52 pm on June 30, 2008 by Moridin

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

5:51 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined April 2006 | 500 Days Active
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | 11131 Posts | 17060 Points
clomb


Dairy Product Addict 		Reply
Doesn't quantum physics and other sub-atomic scientific study show there is no uniformity of nature? Some events happen entirley (as far as current science is aware) at random.
5:55 pm on June 30, 2008 | Joined Feb. 2006 | 207 Days Active
Join to learn more about clomb Northern Ireland, United Kingdom | 274 Posts | 2357 Points
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