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It's not a crime because bugs can't defend themselves (in trial or physically), and neither can a fetus.
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Mentally retarded people cannot legally defend themselves either. Does that mean we should kill them too?

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oh, she's a dreamer ♥
be the change you wish to see in the world
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currently studying in france

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i don't feel the need to equate abortion to anything
it's just the right thing to do
there are too many people around

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Then you wouldn't mind removing yourself would you?

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Quote: from Praise the Lard at 10:26 pm on July 16, 2008

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i don't feel the need to equate abortion to anything  
 it's just the right thing to do  
 there are too many people around

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Then you wouldn't mind removing yourself would you?

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that would be a waste of money
i have 20 years of food, housing, schooling, etc invested in me that would be lost if i died
killing unborn babies is a pittance relative to the hundreds of thousands that i am worth

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You made me this way. I can't control it. I don't want to...
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Many things that are considered "great" are things that could have been avoided completely.

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Such as?

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oh, she's a dreamer ♥
be the change you wish to see in the world
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currently studying in france

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Quote: from N e o at 2:48 am on July 22, 2008

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Many things that are considered "great" are things that could have been avoided completely.  

 

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Such as?

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Let me rephrase, all the examples of "greatness" that have been provided are only those that benefit the human race. Global warming has been brought up, and a solution is not something that I would consider to be "great"... As we are only correcting something that we caused.

A cure for cancer... It benefits the human race and only the human race. Cancer could be one of the many way's nature is attempting to control the population.

There may be something out there that could be considered "great" that benefits the entire planet as a whole, but our negatives far outweigh our positives.

Not to mention the fact that what is great and what is not is a matter of opinion.

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You made me this way. I can't control it. I don't want to...
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Not to mention the fact that what is great and what is not is a matter of opinion.

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As is what has value and what has not.

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To ever ever after

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Quote: from N e o at 11:41 am on July 22, 2008

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Not to mention the fact that what is great and what is not is a matter of opinion.

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As is what has value and what has not.

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And as such, being an opinion. It holds no grounds. Meaning you cant place value on a fetus, when it already (legally) has no value.

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In terms of abortion... I would hate to have it done, but to keep it simple, if it's done within the first trimester, I can accept it.  I would MUCH prefer a baby be aborted in the mother's stomach than to be left to die, to have a mother injure herself to miscarriage, or have a child grow up in a home where it isn't wanted.

Ultimately, if someone tries to avoid pregnancy, and it happens, I can also find reason to justfity it.  Rape, birth control failed (no excuses like "we were stuck in the moment", "I forgot to take a pill", "the condom broke" (but you didn't bother trying to get emergency birth control), etc...

Likewise, a teenager having a pregnancy can potentially harm the child.  Because the girl is still developing, many children can be born with a low birth weight, which can lead to other problems in development.

So I do agree with abortion, but I DON'T agree with people using it as a form of birth control, or something they can do without a thought or care in the world.  For some, it may be the hardest decision to make in their life, and I can respect if they find that an abortion may ultimately be better.  But to use it just because you didn't bother taking appropriate steps and it didn't matter just because you could get it aborted?  Then that I can't completely respect.

>>Mentally retarded people cannot legally defend themselves either. Does that mean we should kill them too? <<

I never insinuated we should kill bugs. But if you're trying to prod from me that I don't value retarded people any more than bugs, that is untrue. Not because I speculate the potential of a mentally retarded person to be higher than a bug, because I don't. I value mentally retarded PEOPLE over bugs, because, naturally, I can identify and sympathize more with a member of my own species.  

This is, of course, assuming I don't have a preexisting personal relationship with the bug in question, in which case the tables may very well be turned.  

Post edited at 9:51 am on July 22, 2008 by MotoMojo

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Spicy Pidgeon

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Quote: from Elm at 1:30 pm on July 21, 2008

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Quote: from Praise the Lard at 10:26 pm on July 16, 2008

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i don't feel the need to equate abortion to anything  
  it's just the right thing to do  
  there are too many people around

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 Then you wouldn't mind removing yourself would you?

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that would be a waste of money
i have 20 years of food, housing, schooling, etc invested in me that would be lost if i died
killing unborn babies is a pittance relative to the hundreds of thousands that i am worth

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Your worth is only based on what someone is willing to pay you.  Money invested in you doesn't equate worth or even as Marx believed time invested.  I can labor for hours making the world's most perfect mud pie.  I can design invest in and build mud pie fabricating machines and at the end of a production run costing millions of dollars if no one would by my mud pies they would be worthless.  Would you like to buy a clump of mud in the shape of a pie?

Now while I am sure someone would pay more for you than a baby the difference would not be all that much and in fact in some cases the baby would win.

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Shouldn't abortion be the mother's choice? If you're taking that option away from her....why...that's reminicent of the whole slavery thing from the Civil War. It strips the person of their civil rights!

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Not even close.  If I own a house and invite you in and then decide I don't want you there can I kill you?

In all cases but rape the female accepted the consequences of the sex act and thus consented to the risk of pregnancy.  In the view of the child it had no control over its location and is not attempting to infringe on any rights and as such is an innocent.

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Hmm... I wonder if this will make me horrible, but I DON'T kill bugs.  Killing a mere ant makes me very sad (yes, I've cried before), and I can't kill a bug unless it is posing some kind of threat (mosquitos carry disease, a scorpion can poison, etc).  Even then, I apologize to it... I have to.

In terms of abortion... I would hate to have it done, but to keep it simple, if it's done within the first trimester, I can accept it.  I would MUCH prefer a baby be aborted in the mother's stomach than to be left to die, to have a mother injure herself to miscarriage, or have a child grow up in a home where it isn't wanted.

Ultimately, if someone tries to avoid pregnancy, and it happens, I can also find reason to justfity it.  Rape, birth control failed (no excuses like "we were stuck in the moment", "I forgot to take a pill", "the condom broke" (but you didn't bother trying to get emergency birth control), etc...

Likewise, a teenager having a pregnancy can potentially harm the child.  Because the girl is still developing, many children can be born with a low birth weight, which can lead to other problems in development.

So I do agree with abortion, but I DON'T agree with people using it as a form of birth control, or something they can do without a thought or care in the world.  For some, it may be the hardest decision to make in their life, and I can respect if they find that an abortion may ultimately be better.  But to use it just because you didn't bother taking appropriate steps and it didn't matter just because you could get it aborted?  Then that I can't completely respect.

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Maybe we should hear people who are living happy lives now who grew up in houses where they weren't wanted and you  can tell them you would have spared them their life out of some sense of charity.