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Quote: from hound at 1:54 am on July 13, 2008

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...Your kidding right?  
 Of course they get a lot of money!!!  
 why do you think people want to become prime minister or president?  
 MONEY!!!  
 They get paid more than most people of anywhere.

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Actually, it's more about influence. They bend the laws and policies to benefit their mutual friends, who then grant them concessions. Aka bribes. Get your facts straight, they aren't taking directly from the taxpayers, it's illegal, they take bribes from people to make policies more favorable to them.

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Quote: from Elm at 3:05 pm on July 13, 2008

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Joining insurance is voluntary, having money forced from you by government is not.

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Except the principle is still the same. I pay money into a system that goes towards payments to others for various reasons. Since TheLastMagister is against paying more into a system so that another person can get help, he must be against insurance as well.

If one is against a system where they pay into the system that helps others, they must be against insurance.

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I doubt that is the actual reason they are against it, they simply cannot explain their issues with it or cannot be bothered to do so in a more clear manner.  

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 11:35 am on July 13, 2008

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Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:39 am on July 13, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:36 am on July 13, 2008

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Please. It is not nearly as black and white and abused as you are currently painting it.

---

  It is that black and white. Your telling me that there are people out there who are too incapable of getting a decent job, but they can't apply for enough government aid already? Or are they too proud and don't want financial aid? Which by the way, universal health care is doing. The U.S. has plenty of options for those who are disabled or unable to support themselves. Universal health care will just support the slackers.

---

 

 No, it isn't that cut and dry. Those who are in poverty are eligible for aid, but there is that "missing class" that is just above poverty, but not quite lower middle class that are just over the limit. Plus, ho the requirements are cut often don't factor in children. A three person family making 40,000 may be eligible, but a five person family with one income of 45,000 could not.

 They are struggling to make ends meet, have little no savings, and normally work 12+ hours or two jobs. And they can't afford health care. I really wouldn't call them slackers. It's all fine for you to sit on your rich ass and say that every body else is a slacker when you have no idea what it is like. Give me some statistics. Or data that supports your bogus claim. Because I know that you have little to no personal experience outside of suburbia on this matter.  

 So how about actually holding your tongue on something that you are ignorant about instead of making baseless assumptions and wild extrapolations?

---

Lol, I have no experience in this area? You really are an assumptious twat. I've had a stepfather whose lived in the slums of Chicago, because his own house foreclosed on him and he needed to move in with his Polish girlfriend(who is illegal btw), and trust me. Alot of those people in those slums are just too damn lazy to make something of themselves. So how's about you shut the fuck up before you say people don't know shit asshole, oh yeah, and I'm sure your so poor. How about living in an apartment that's barely big enough for a couple instead fitting five.

---

So, you have experience because you stepfather was in the slums? And, uh his Polish girlfriends legal status isn't very pressing for the discussion.

If you are so ghetto-fabulous, then you should know why the inhabitants are "lazy" (more like hopeless). They are stuck in the ghetto. They were born there, and almost all of them are convinced that they will die there. So they don't bother to work or improve their lives. It's not laziness, it is depression that is inherent in all economically depressed areas. That's why the drugs and crime moves in. Poverty breeds crime and unemployment.

Instead of getting in a pissing match of "Who's More Poor?", how about you actually refute my point? Your economic standing is mostly unimportant, though I'm curious as to why you never explicitly say that you lived in the slums.

-------
Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

---

This gives me a headache.

The Iraq has nothing to do with Healthcare.

Our president is paid 300,000 a year. Thats nothing compared to even a moderately successful business owner.

Universal healthcare isn't about people helping each others - the word for that is charity and it doesn't need to be forced.

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WTF!? 300,000? I thought it was more like 90,000. He isn't exactly broke, now is he though?

-------
Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

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Quote: from Elm at 4:28 pm on July 13, 2008

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This gives me a headache.  

 The Iraq has nothing to do with Healthcare.  

 Our president is paid 300,000 a year.  Thats nothing compared to even a moderately successful business owner.  

 Universal healthcare isn't about people helping each others - the word for that is charity and it doesn't need to be forced.

---

WTF!? 300,000? I thought it was more like 90,000. He isn't exactly broke, now is he though?

---

It's in the ballpark of 300,000 and it doesn't include all the perks of the office of course but people don't become Presidents for the income.  Winning a primary and general election cost far far more than 300,000 x 4 or even 8.

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 12:16 am on July 14, 2008

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Quote: from Elm at 4:28 pm on July 13, 2008

---

This gives me a headache.

  The Iraq has nothing to do with Healthcare.

  Our president is paid 300,000 a year. Thats nothing compared to even a moderately successful business owner.

  Universal healthcare isn't about people helping each others - the word for that is charity and it doesn't need to be forced.

---

 

 WTF!? 300,000? I thought it was more like 90,000. He isn't exactly broke, now is he though?

---

It's in the ballpark of 300,000 and it doesn't include all the perks of the office of course but people don't become Presidents for the income. Winning a primary and general election cost far far more than 300,000 x 4 or even 8.

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Of course an election is very expensive, that's why only the rich or those willing to sell their soul have any chance of campaigning.

-------
Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 4:20 pm on July 13, 2008

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Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 11:35 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:39 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:36 am on July 13, 2008

---

Please. It is not nearly as black and white and abused as you are currently painting it.

---

   
  It is that black and white. Your telling me that there are people out there who are too incapable of getting a decent job, but they can't apply for enough government aid already? Or are they too proud and don't want financial aid? Which by the way, universal health care is doing. The U.S. has plenty of options for those who are disabled or unable to support themselves. Universal health care will just support the slackers.

---

  No, it isn't that cut and dry. Those who are in poverty are eligible for aid, but there is that "missing class" that is just above poverty, but not quite lower middle class that are just over the limit. Plus, ho the requirements are cut often don't factor in children. A three person family making 40,000 may be eligible, but a five person family with one income of 45,000 could not.    

  They are struggling to make ends meet, have little no savings, and normally work 12+ hours or two jobs. And they can't afford health care. I really wouldn't call them slackers. It's all fine for you to sit on your rich ass and say that every body else is a slacker when you have no idea what it is like. Give me some statistics. Or data that supports your bogus claim. Because I know that you have little to no personal experience outside of suburbia on this matter.

  So how about actually holding your tongue on something that you are ignorant about instead of making baseless assumptions and wild extrapolations?

---

 
 Lol, I have no experience in this area? You really are an assumptious twat. I've had a stepfather whose lived in the slums of Chicago, because his own house foreclosed on him and he needed to move in with his Polish girlfriend(who is illegal btw), and trust me. Alot of those people in those slums are just too damn lazy to make something of themselves. So how's about you shut the fuck up before you say people don't know shit asshole, oh yeah, and I'm sure your so poor. How about living in an apartment that's barely big enough for a couple instead fitting five.

---

So, you have experience because you stepfather was in the slums? And, uh his Polish girlfriends legal status isn't very pressing for the discussion.

If you are so ghetto-fabulous, then you should know why the inhabitants are "lazy" (more like hopeless). They are stuck in the ghetto. They were born there, and almost all of them are convinced that they will die there. So they don't bother to work or improve their lives. It's not laziness, it is depression that is inherent in all economically depressed areas. That's why the drugs and crime moves in. Poverty breeds crime and unemployment.  

Instead of getting in a pissing match of "Who's More Poor?", how about you actually refute my point? Your economic standing is mostly unimportant, though I'm curious as to why you never explicitly say that you lived in the slums.

---

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 12:15 am on July 14, 2008

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 4:20 pm on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 11:35 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:39 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:36 am on July 13, 2008

---

Please. It is not nearly as black and white and abused as you are currently painting it.

---

   It is that black and white. Your telling me that there are people out there who are too incapable of getting a decent job, but they can't apply for enough government aid already? Or are they too proud and don't want financial aid? Which by the way, universal health care is doing. The U.S. has plenty of options for those who are disabled or unable to support themselves. Universal health care will just support the slackers.

---

   

  No, it isn't that cut and dry. Those who are in poverty are eligible for aid, but there is that "missing class" that is just above poverty, but not quite lower middle class that are just over the limit. Plus, ho the requirements are cut often don't factor in children. A three person family making 40,000 may be eligible, but a five person family with one income of 45,000 could not.

  They are struggling to make ends meet, have little no savings, and normally work 12+ hours or two jobs. And they can't afford health care. I really wouldn't call them slackers. It's all fine for you to sit on your rich ass and say that every body else is a slacker when you have no idea what it is like. Give me some statistics. Or data that supports your bogus claim. Because I know that you have little to no personal experience outside of suburbia on this matter.    

  So how about actually holding your tongue on something that you are ignorant about instead of making baseless assumptions and wild extrapolations?

---

  Lol, I have no experience in this area? You really are an assumptious twat. I've had a stepfather whose lived in the slums of Chicago, because his own house foreclosed on him and he needed to move in with his Polish girlfriend(who is illegal btw), and trust me. Alot of those people in those slums are just too damn lazy to make something of themselves. So how's about you shut the fuck up before you say people don't know shit asshole, oh yeah, and I'm sure your so poor. How about living in an apartment that's barely big enough for a couple instead fitting five.

---

 

 So, you have experience because you stepfather was in the slums? And, uh his Polish girlfriends legal status isn't very pressing for the discussion.  

 If you are so ghetto-fabulous, then you should know why the inhabitants are "lazy" (more like hopeless). They are stuck in the ghetto. They were born there, and almost all of them are convinced that they will die there. So they don't bother to work or improve their lives. It's not laziness, it is depression that is inherent in all economically depressed areas. That's why the drugs and crime moves in. Poverty breeds crime and unemployment.

 Instead of getting in a pissing match of "Who's More Poor?", how about you actually refute my point? Your economic standing is mostly unimportant, though I'm curious as to why you never explicitly say that you lived in the slums.

---

Lol, because most of them don't want to get educations? Yeah, I know what it's like, and I said fuck them, and I do now, quit being so lazy, and get an education, then get a good job.

---

If you are so educted on the conditions of the slums and ghettos, then you should know how poor the pubic school system is. Outdated books, poorly trained teachers, and very little funding. Conditions that have only been aggravated by the No Child Left Behind bill. Even if they wanted to get a decent education, there is very little chance they would be able to get one.

And there are no good jobs in the ghettos. There is very little work, and that is low pay. So it's not like they can get a decent paycheck to get out of there and get a better life.

You obviously are pulling stuff out of your ass and thinking it's viable because you stepfather and his girlfriend lived in the ghetto.

-------
Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 12:33 am on July 15, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 12:15 am on July 14, 2008

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 4:20 pm on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 11:35 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:39 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:36 am on July 13, 2008

---

Please. It is not nearly as black and white and abused as you are currently painting it.

---

     
    It is that black and white. Your telling me that there are people out there who are too incapable of getting a decent job, but they can't apply for enough government aid already? Or are they too proud and don't want financial aid? Which by the way, universal health care is doing. The U.S. has plenty of options for those who are disabled or unable to support themselves. Universal health care will just support the slackers.

---

   No, it isn't that cut and dry. Those who are in poverty are eligible for aid, but there is that "missing class" that is just above poverty, but not quite lower middle class that are just over the limit. Plus, ho the requirements are cut often don't factor in children. A three person family making 40,000 may be eligible, but a five person family with one income of 45,000 could not.      

   They are struggling to make ends meet, have little no savings, and normally work 12+ hours or two jobs. And they can't afford health care. I really wouldn't call them slackers. It's all fine for you to sit on your rich ass and say that every body else is a slacker when you have no idea what it is like. Give me some statistics. Or data that supports your bogus claim. Because I know that you have little to no personal experience outside of suburbia on this matter.

   So how about actually holding your tongue on something that you are ignorant about instead of making baseless assumptions and wild extrapolations?

---

   
  Lol, I have no experience in this area? You really are an assumptious twat. I've had a stepfather whose lived in the slums of Chicago, because his own house foreclosed on him and he needed to move in with his Polish girlfriend(who is illegal btw), and trust me. Alot of those people in those slums are just too damn lazy to make something of themselves. So how's about you shut the fuck up before you say people don't know shit asshole, oh yeah, and I'm sure your so poor. How about living in an apartment that's barely big enough for a couple instead fitting five.

---

  So, you have experience because you stepfather was in the slums? And, uh his Polish girlfriends legal status isn't very pressing for the discussion.

  If you are so ghetto-fabulous, then you should know why the inhabitants are "lazy" (more like hopeless). They are stuck in the ghetto. They were born there, and almost all of them are convinced that they will die there. So they don't bother to work or improve their lives. It's not laziness, it is depression that is inherent in all economically depressed areas. That's why the drugs and crime moves in. Poverty breeds crime and unemployment.    

  Instead of getting in a pissing match of "Who's More Poor?", how about you actually refute my point? Your economic standing is mostly unimportant, though I'm curious as to why you never explicitly say that you lived in the slums.

---

 
 Lol, because most of them don't want to get educations? Yeah, I know what it's like, and I said fuck them, and I do now, quit being so lazy, and get an education, then get a good job.

---

If you are so educted on the conditions of the slums and ghettos, then you should know how poor the pubic school system is. Outdated books, poorly trained teachers, and very little funding. Conditions that have only been aggravated by the No Child Left Behind bill. Even if they wanted to get a decent education, there is very little chance they would be able to get one.

And there are no good jobs in the ghettos. There is very little work, and that is low pay. So it's not like they can get a decent paycheck to get out of there and get a better life.

You obviously are pulling stuff out of your ass and thinking it's viable because you stepfather and his girlfriend lived in the ghetto.

---

Again, have you spent time in the ghettos? Obviously not. And I personally know a teacher who goes out of her way to work at an inner city school, where she actually tries to motivate them, and she says some of them actually have gone off to college, but the ones that quit are pulled down by their friends and family.

-------
I don't create spam, I erase your boredom.

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I don't want to pay for other people's medicine, have them lean on their family and friends, why should I pay more taxes so some guy I probably don't even know can get his meds, or so some 16 year old can sell his prescription in school. Besides, if you can't afford healthcare, we already have welfare, and other goverment programs to help those who need it. Your too proud to apply? Too damn bad, die of asthma then.

---

Are you kidding? We MUST increase taxes so everyone can be a good Socialist and pay for everyone else. Why should there be good health care? Instead, let's make it horrible for everyone.

-------
"So you think that money is the root of all evil.
Have you ever asked what is the root of all money?" - Ayn Rand

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:32 am on July 13, 2008

---

I don't want to pay for other people's medicine, have them lean on their family and friends, why should I pay more taxes so some guy I probably don't even know can get his meds, or so some 16 year old can sell his prescription in school. Besides, if you can't afford healthcare, we already have welfare, and other goverment programs to help those who need it. Your too proud to apply? Too damn bad, die of asthma then.

---

Are you kidding? We MUST increase taxes so everyone can be a good Socialist and pay for everyone else. Why should there be good health care? Instead, let's make it horrible for everyone.  

---

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:25 pm on July 15, 2008

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Quote: from TheLastMagister at 12:33 am on July 15, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 12:15 am on July 14, 2008

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 4:20 pm on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 11:35 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:39 am on July 13, 2008

---

Quote: from nigeltheoutlaw at 1:36 am on July 13, 2008

---

Please. It is not nearly as black and white and abused as you are currently painting it.

---

    It is that black and white. Your telling me that there are people out there who are too incapable of getting a decent job, but they can't apply for enough government aid already? Or are they too proud and don't want financial aid? Which by the way, universal health care is doing. The U.S. has plenty of options for those who are disabled or unable to support themselves. Universal health care will just support the slackers.

---

     

    No, it isn't that cut and dry. Those who are in poverty are eligible for aid, but there is that "missing class" that is just above poverty, but not quite lower middle class that are just over the limit. Plus, ho the requirements are cut often don't factor in children. A three person family making 40,000 may be eligible, but a five person family with one income of 45,000 could not.

    They are struggling to make ends meet, have little no savings, and normally work 12+ hours or two jobs. And they can't afford health care. I really wouldn't call them slackers. It's all fine for you to sit on your rich ass and say that every body else is a slacker when you have no idea what it is like. Give me some statistics. Or data that supports your bogus claim. Because I know that you have little to no personal experience outside of suburbia on this matter.      

    So how about actually holding your tongue on something that you are ignorant about instead of making baseless assumptions and wild extrapolations?

---

   Lol, I have no experience in this area? You really are an assumptious twat. I've had a stepfather whose lived in the slums of Chicago, because his own house foreclosed on him and he needed to move in with his Polish girlfriend(who is illegal btw), and trust me. Alot of those people in those slums are just too damn lazy to make something of themselves. So how's about you shut the fuck up before you say people don't know shit asshole, oh yeah, and I'm sure your so poor. How about living in an apartment that's barely big enough for a couple instead fitting five.

---

   

  So, you have experience because you stepfather was in the slums? And, uh his Polish girlfriends legal status isn't very pressing for the discussion.    

  If you are so ghetto-fabulous, then you should know why the inhabitants are "lazy" (more like hopeless). They are stuck in the ghetto. They were born there, and almost all of them are convinced that they will die there. So they don't bother to work or improve their lives. It's not laziness, it is depression that is inherent in all economically depressed areas. That's why the drugs and crime moves in. Poverty breeds crime and unemployment.

  Instead of getting in a pissing match of "Who's More Poor?", how about you actually refute my point? Your economic standing is mostly unimportant, though I'm curious as to why you never explicitly say that you lived in the slums.

---

  Lol, because most of them don't want to get educations? Yeah, I know what it's like, and I said fuck them, and I do now, quit being so lazy, and get an education, then get a good job.

---

 

 If you are so educated on the conditions of the slums and ghettos, then you should know how poor the pubic school system is. Outdated books, poorly trained teachers, and very little funding. Conditions that have only been aggravated by the No Child Left Behind bill. Even if they wanted to get a decent education, there is very little chance they would be able to get one.  

 And there are no good jobs in the ghettos. There is very little work, and that is low pay. So it's not like they can get a decent paycheck to get out of there and get a better life.  

 You obviously are pulling stuff out of your ass and thinking it's viable because you stepfather and his girlfriend lived in the ghetto.

---

Again, have you spent time in the ghettos? Obviously not. And I personally know a teacher who goes out of her way to work at an inner city school, where she actually tries to motivate them, and she says some of them actually have gone off to college, but the ones that quit are pulled down by their friends and family.

---

I've lived in ghettos, slums, the poor neighborhoods on the wrong side of the tracks. Always have, and will until I move out when I'm 18.

Of course there is that bright eyed new teacher fresh from college who wants to teach the less fortunate, but how many of them are there? 1/30? 1/60? There are too few to make any sort of difference other than for a few students who they help lift out of poverty.

That still doesn't change the truth in everything I've said.

-------
Now gangsta ass players come in all shapes and colors

---

Again, have you spent time in the ghettos? Obviously not. And I personally know a teacher who goes out of her way to work at an inner city school, where she actually tries to motivate them, and she says some of them actually have gone off to college, but the ones that quit are pulled down by their friends and family.

---