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I'm going by the dictionary definition, but I don't believe Suicide is a primarily selfish act. People want to get rid of their pain. That's not selfish.

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Sure it is, if they're more concerned with getting rid of their own pain than with the pain they'll cause others. Again, I'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing, but it is inherently selfish, as selfishness is defined by the dictionary.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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I believe suicide is the single most selfish act a person can ever do. I've lost someone to suicide, and the pain it causes those that are left is unreal. It's so selfish of the deceased to inflict that upon their loved ones.

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Did he kill himself because he was depressed and lived a miserable life?  Because if so he probably felt emotional pain every day of his life until he could finally not take it anymore.  I'm sorry that your friend killed himself, but he was suffering internally, and some people just can't handle it.

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Death is the ultimate experience. The last thing to die is hope.

(http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html)

So, if it's circumstantial suicidal tendencies, then it is foolish to throw your life away when things will be better in a year. But if it's depression, without a trigger, then your brain probably has problems manufacturing happiness ANYWAY, so it's a trickier issue.

Anyway, I think that suicide is often the wrong choice-- an overcomplicated solution to something that could easily be fixed.

And a lot of the time, the person committing suicide doesn't really want to. They feel hopeless and don't know what else to do. But if they were in therapy, they might learn how to better cope with their problems.

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«If I can stop one heart from breaking,
I shall not live in vain.» -Emily Dickinson

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Having lost a friend to suicide, I have to say... it's the ones that forced her to endure her issues for 9 whole years who were the selfish ones. Sure, they mourned her when she died, I did and still do also, but I'm now so happy for her because I saw how none of these so called treatments did anything for her. I saw the pain she was in, the pain she's no longer in. How can allowing someone you love to live as such make you feel any better than them being dead?

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I am so in total agreement with you.  That's just how I would have said it had one of my friends being a victim of suicide.

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Death is the ultimate experience. The last thing to die is hope.

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Having lost a friend to suicide, I have to say... it's the ones that forced her to endure her issues for 9 whole years who were the selfish ones. Sure, they mourned her when she died, I did and still do also, but I'm now so happy for her because I saw how none of these so called treatments did anything for her. I saw the pain she was in, the pain she's no longer in. How can allowing someone you love to live as such make you feel any better than them being dead?

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Here's the question, though: how do you know that they were forcing her to live with their issues to avoid their own pain? Couldn't it also have been that they simply wanted her to get well for her own sake?

Regardless, even if they were being selfish in encouraging her to keep living, do you honestly think that she killed herself not because of her own pain but because of the pain of others?

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Quote: from allsmiles at 8:58 am on July 26, 2008

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Having lost a friend to suicide, I have to say... it's the ones that forced her to endure her issues for 9 whole years who were the selfish ones. Sure, they mourned her when she died, I did and still do also, but I'm now so happy for her because I saw how none of these so called treatments did anything for her. I saw the pain she was in, the pain she's no longer in. How can allowing someone you love to live as such make you feel any better than them being dead?

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Here's the question, though: how do you know that they were forcing her to live with their issues to avoid their own pain? Couldn't it also have been that they simply wanted her to get well for her own sake?

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I don't. I'm not going to speak for them, just speak my opinion. If nothing else, they were emotionally blackmailing her into putting off (successful) suicide for as long as she did. If they wanted what's best for her, after seeing how the shrinks were doing nothing, the drugs were doing nothing, and the institutions were doing nothing, except helping her spiral down, I wouldn't keep telling her not to commit suicide. It cannot be totally selfless to make someone endure.

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Regardless, even if they were being selfish in encouraging her to keep living, do you honestly think that she killed herself not because of her own pain but because of the pain of others?

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When did I say that? She definitely did it for her own pain, her last words made that absolutely clear.

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When they leave me, they're all smiles.
When they leave you, they're in tears.

Having said that, I still think the suicidal person is more in the right. You can't live your life constantly worrying about what other people would want you to do.

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"Under the hardness of her facade a woman's heart is still beating."

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Quote: from allsmiles at 8:58 am on July 26, 2008

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Having lost a friend to suicide, I have to say... it's the ones that forced her to endure her issues for 9 whole years who were the selfish ones. Sure, they mourned her when she died, I did and still do also, but I'm now so happy for her because I saw how none of these so called treatments did anything for her. I saw the pain she was in, the pain she's no longer in. How can allowing someone you love to live as such make you feel any better than them being dead?

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Here's the question, though: how do you know that they were forcing her to live with their issues to avoid their own pain? Couldn't it also have been that they simply wanted her to get well for her own sake?

Regardless, even if they were being selfish in encouraging her to keep living, do you honestly think that she killed herself not because of her own pain but because of the pain of others?

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It's still something they want so they're still being selfish to an extent.

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"Under the hardness of her facade a woman's heart is still beating."

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It's still something they want so they're still being selfish to an extent.

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Wanting something for someone else isn't selfish. Wanting something for yourself is.

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I don't. I'm not going to speak for them, just speak my opinion. If nothing else, they were emotionally blackmailing her into putting off (successful) suicide for as long as she did. If they wanted what's best for her, after seeing how the shrinks were doing nothing, the drugs were doing nothing, and the institutions were doing nothing, except helping her spiral down, I wouldn't keep telling her not to commit suicide. It cannot be totally selfless to make someone endure.

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Again, you can't say that with certainty. Personally, were I in that situation, it wouldn't be my own pain I'd be trying to avoid. I can't speak for them either, but I doubt that they were entirely selfish in their desire to keep her alive either.

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When did I say that? She definitely did it for her own pain, her last words made that absolutely clear.

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Ergo, because she was only considering herself, while they were considering both themselves and her, she was the more selfish one. Logic ftw.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

It's all the same...I want.

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"Under the hardness of her facade a woman's heart is still beating."