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  LiveWire / Teen Forums / The Intellectual Forum / Viewing Topic

Who is the selfish one when suicide is involved?
Replies: 51Last Post Aug. 12, 2008 6:58am by Loud Dog
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ignatius


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Quote: from Nikki at 11:29 am on July 13, 2008

I disagree. I mean, you have no right to discriminate against a person for taking their own life. They have the free will to do that, and why should anyone else have the right to take that freedom away?

Free will ???!!!
How can a person with a severe depression may have "free will" for instant?
Don't tell me that you think suicidal people are mentally healthy !!!
Even the thought of taking their life show they have psychological and/emotional problems , maybe personality disorders or whatever...
These people are not having fee will, they are being sick and their mind is controlled by their sickness .
The people around  should help them to go to a therapist and seek treatment .

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nikki


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I'm sorry. That is nonsense. I'm not going to even bother replying, because that is quite disgusting on so many levels for me.

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Quote: from Nikki at 3:41 pm on July 13, 2008

I'm sure suicidal people DO think about what they'll leave behind, and the people they'll hurt. Suicide is an act of courage in that respect - they KNOW they'll cause upset, but they are in that much pain that they go through with ending their lives anyway.

I don't believe people have a right to stop people from taking their own life. End of.


Courage has nothing to do with it. We're talking about whether or not it is selfish to consider your own pain as more important than the pain you'd cause others.

We are also not talking about anyone stopping people from taking their own lives. If you think I am, please find me an example from my posts.

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nikki


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Well, I don't believe it to be selfish. Unfair, yes, but a lot of things in life are unfair. If that person feels it is in their best interests to end their life, then how can anyone else pass judgement on whether it is selfish or not?

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Quote: from Nikki at 7:56 am on July 14, 2008

Well, I don't believe it to be selfish. Unfair, yes, but a lot of things in life are unfair. If that person feels it is in their best interests to end their life, then how can anyone else pass judgement on whether it is selfish or not?

...by looking at the definition of the word "selfish?"


selfˇish   Audio Help   /ˈsɛlfɪʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sel-fish] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-adjective 1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.  
2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself

From dictionary.com

Regardless of whether it's unfair, courageous, cowardly or fair, committing suicide and being focused solely on your own pain and not the potential pain of others is selfish.

Note how I've never said it was bad, wrong or that people shouldn't do it, just that it is selfish, which it is.

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nikki


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Hm, well, that may be, but I just don't think it's a primarily selfish act.

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Quote: from Nikki at 8:31 am on July 14, 2008

Hm, well, that may be, but I just don't think it's a primarily selfish act.

What isn't selfish about it, by the definition that the dictionary gives?

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nikki


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People thinking of suicide are not rational. If you're thinking about ending your life, you're not going to be looking at anything from a logical viewpoint. Someone, say, who was buying a family car, but bought one to suit their needs more than anyone elses would be selfish. But someone committing suicide isn't thinking logically. They are in that much pain that that's all they feel will stop it.

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People control their own lives. The families and friends are the selfish ones.

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Quote: from Nikki at 8:53 am on July 14, 2008

People thinking of suicide are not rational. If you're thinking about ending your life, you're not going to be looking at anything from a logical viewpoint. Someone, say, who was buying a family car, but bought one to suit their needs more than anyone elses would be selfish. But someone committing suicide isn't thinking logically. They are in that much pain that that's all they feel will stop it.

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing the "is thinking logically and is still considering himself and his needs and desires more than those of others" as part of the definition. Could you show me where that is?

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nikki


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I never said it WAS part of any definition, just that because these people are suicidal, then they can't be subjected to the same rules of "Logic" that everyone else is.

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Quote: from Nikki at 5:08 pm on July 14, 2008

I never said it WAS part of any definition, just that because these people are suicidal, then they can't be subjected to the same rules of "Logic" that everyone else is.

Logic has nothing to do with it; selfishness is solely the act of considering your own thoughts, feelings, needs and desires before those of anyone else. By that merit, committing suicide because you want to escape the pain you're in is selfish.

Also, point that you seem to be reading a negative implication into the word "selfish." I'm using the word "selfish" in a neutral way here...that they're selfish isn't good or bad. It just is.

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nikki


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I'd agree with that, but I don't believe selfishness is the main reason behind suicide (which I don't think you're arguing, btw).

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Quote: from Nikki at 8:15 am on July 15, 2008

I'd agree with that, but I don't believe selfishness is the main reason behind suicide (which I don't think you're arguing, btw).

That would depend on how you're defining selfishness. If you're going by the dictionary definition, it is, in fact, the main reason behind suicide, whether people are mentally ill or not. If you're going by some other definition, well, I have no idea because I don't know your definitions.

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nikki


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I'm going by the dictionary definition, but I don't believe Suicide is a primarily selfish act. People want to get rid of their pain. That's not selfish.

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