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Quote: from bighead1991 at 3:59 pm on Aug. 28, 2008

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Moderate subjectively as those images require it, what Katy had said.

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Which was demonstrated to be too inconsistent.

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A lot of us argued that we could bring a modicum of objective guidelines into it, to help iron out some of the problems with the subjectivity... That was never even given a chance to blossom, instead a case of blanket censoring was implemented due mainly to sensationalist retardation, and for once, not from members.

Post edited at 4:23 pm on Aug. 29, 2008 by Rastafarian

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"Who are you?" Sophie asked.
She received no response to this either, but felt a momentary
confusion as to whether it was she or her reflection who asked
the question.

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Quote: from FurryPanther at 3:45 pm on Aug. 28, 2008

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Quote: from bighead1991 at 3:59 pm on Aug. 28, 2008

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Moderate subjectively as those images require it, what Katy had said.

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Which was demonstrated to be too inconsistent.

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A lot of us argued that we could bring a modicum of objective guidelines into it, to help iron out some of the problems with the subjectivity... That was never even given a chance to blossom, instead a case of blanket censoring was implemented due mainly to sensationalist retardation, and for once, not from members.

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Hey, I personally wasn't opposed to that, I just didn't see it happen. I don't see how it would have worked, but all the same, if something had happened that would, I'd prefer that. But really, limiting nudity to the art forum is far from unreasonable.

FP

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I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones.

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I just didn't see it happen.

FP

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Quote: from FurryPanther at 8:07 pm on Aug. 29, 2008

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I just didn't see it happen.

 FP

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You didn't see it happen because it wasn't allowed to happen.

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Once I saw the possibility of a non-iron fist policy, I was happy with it. That's what we've got now. Agreed, given more time, it could have gotten better.

I didn't push for immediate implementation. I said I liked the suggestion, well aware it was far from perfect. It is possible for something more... elastic to develop, and if we want to change it, using the current policy as a temporary countermeasure, I'd be open to discussion.

FP

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I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones.

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 7:35 pm on Aug. 29, 2008

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Quote: from FurryPanther at 8:07 pm on Aug. 29, 2008

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I just didn't see it happen.  

  FP

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You didn't see it happen because it wasn't allowed to happen.

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Once I saw the possibility of a non-iron fist policy, I was happy with it. That's what we've got now. Agreed, given more time, it could have gotten better.

I didn't push for immediate implementation. I said I liked the suggestion, well aware it was far from perfect. It is possible for something more... elastic to develop, and if we want to change it, using the current policy as a temporary countermeasure, I'd be open to discussion.

FP

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From conversations I've had, it's no longer up for discussion. That point was passed when the 'Three Musketeers' took over. And you call this a 'non-iron fist' policy? I'd really hate to see one that was then.

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No, this is strict, but it could be worse. It could also be better.

Reality is, if members hadn't started the push, and had been reasonable, the moderators wouldn't have had the spark to do what they did.

Things here work the same way they do in the real world. If people live within reasonable limits, things are good. As soon as they push it, policy has to be made to keep things reasonable, because the people can't use their heads and do it themselves. The problem with that is a lot of good stuff goes too, and the bystanders who weren't involved suffer because of those rebellious few.

FP

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I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones.

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Crack kills!  
No seriously I think it is fine I see no crack... but I again must complain why people want to always try to get around the rules! It's annoying. Just leave anything approaching breaking the rules alone!

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And if people did, we wouldn't need a bunch of restrictive rules to keep them in check. But there's that select group that has to push until we react, then go on to the next thing.

FP

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I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones.

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 10:03 pm on Aug. 29, 2008

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From conversations I've had, it's no longer up for discussion. That point was passed when the 'Three Musketeers' took over. And you call this a 'non-iron fist' policy? I'd really hate to see one that was then.

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No, this is strict, but it could be worse. It could also be better.

Reality is, if members hadn't started the push, and had been reasonable, the moderators wouldn't have had the spark to do what they did.

Things here work the same way they do in the real world. If people live within reasonable limits, things are good. As soon as they push it, policy has to be made to keep things reasonable, because the people can't use their heads and do it themselves. The problem with that is a lot of good stuff goes too, and the bystanders who weren't involved suffer because of those rebellious few.

FP

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And there is no need for a "bunch of restrictive rules" if the previously existing rules are applied consistently and evenly. It's when there is a failure of 'consistent' moderation that the problem arises. If a rule change is needed it should one aimed at Moderators more so than the members in this case.

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Bohica

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 And there is no need for a "bunch of restrictive rules" if the previously existing rules are applied consistently and evenly. It's when there is a failure of 'consistent' moderation that the problem arises. If a rule change is needed it should one aimed at Moderators more so than the members in this case.

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How do they go about doing that consistent moderation?  I think they have to agree on the subject first.  And I dont see that happening.

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So here's my goodbye, no one will cry over me.

I'm not worth any tears.

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:35 am on Aug. 30, 2008

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 And there is no need for a "bunch of restrictive rules" if the previously existing rules are applied consistently and evenly. It's when there is a failure of 'consistent' moderation that the problem arises. If a rule change is needed it should one aimed at Moderators more so than the members in this case.

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How do they go about doing that consistent moderation?  I think they have to agree on the subject first.  And I dont see that happening.

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But for some Mods, it seems that being a Mod is an ego trip that puts them above regular members and outside of some of the rules.

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Bohica

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Quote: from jamesish at 9:17 am on Aug. 30, 2008

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:35 am on Aug. 30, 2008

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And there is no need for a "bunch of restrictive rules" if the previously existing rules are applied consistently and evenly. It's when there is a failure of 'consistent' moderation that the problem arises. If a rule change is needed it should one aimed at Moderators more so than the members in this case.

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 How do they go about doing that consistent moderation? I think they have to agree on the subject first. And I dont see that happening.

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Unfortunately, you're right. But that is (or should be) one of the purposes of 'mod forum' I believe, to discuss their opinions and different points of view.  

But for some Mods, it seems that being a Mod is an ego trip that puts them above regular members and outside of some of the rules.

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FA I'm surprised that they let you keep your angel avatar. I mean hell, there's nudity in it.

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Educators destroy your brain,
but you don't know, so why care?
Fagotto

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FA I'm surprised that they let you keep your angel avatar. I mean hell, there's nudity in it.

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FA, nothing against you.  You're avatar is fine to me.

Micus, But this is the inconsistency by moderators that everyone is talking about.  Well, the loudest members.

Guidelines were given and they're clearly just not enough.  We can't just complain about avatars.  Because some mods will agree that its ok, and some wont.  We just have to wait for them to work it all out. And then maybe we can have a decent LW discussion about it based on exact LW guidelines and not individual opinions.  Yes we have guidelines already, but maybe they just weren't exact enough.

Or maybe I'm wrong.  It sounded right.

-------
So here's my goodbye, no one will cry over me.

I'm not worth any tears.

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 10:46 am on Aug. 30, 2008

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Quote: from jamesish at 9:17 am on Aug. 30, 2008

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:35 am on Aug. 30, 2008

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 And there is no need for a "bunch of restrictive rules" if the previously existing rules are applied consistently and evenly. It's when there is a failure of 'consistent' moderation that the problem arises. If a rule change is needed it should one aimed at Moderators more so than the members in this case.

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  How do they go about doing that consistent moderation?  I think they have to agree on the subject first.  And I dont see that happening.

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Unfortunately, you're right. But that is (or should be) one of the purposes of 'mod forum' I believe, to discuss their opinions and different points of view.  

 But for some Mods, it seems that being a Mod is an ego trip that puts them above regular members and outside of some of the rules.

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FA I'm surprised that they let you keep your angel avatar. I mean hell, there's nudity in it.

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Micus, But this is the inconsistency by moderators that everyone is talking about. Well, the loudest members.

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I know, that's what I'm saying.

I've seen worse avatars allowed to stay, and I've seen better ones taken down.

-------
Educators destroy your brain,
but you don't know, so why care?
Fagotto