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Quote: from Prince o palities at 11:56 am on Aug. 2, 2008

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In other news, David really should review his mods more often.  There has never been a time when I was on the mod team that I didn't think that at least one of my coworkers was not fit for duty.

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I hate to admit it, but I agree.

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being a 'model member of the community' is a different story

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join this group only if youre a mod

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Quote: from Crazy snake at 9:49 am on Aug. 5, 2008

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Quote: from Tangaroa at 10:32 pm on Aug. 4, 2008

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Isn't all this overkill for a privately owned website?

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Not realy, I mean, it wouldnt matter if it wasnt a forum. But the fact that it is a public support forum, means that correct procedures to ensure correct moderation should be taken

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On many other forums you would have been simply banned by now for disturbing the peace, or even banned by the moderators who you seem to have a problem with.

We don't do that here, yet, but I can see how there might actually be reason for such a rule considering how many illegitimate complaints we get. I am suspecting that this is one of those, evidence of what you claim would be nice, please.

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You are asking for evidence? There is plenty of evidence, I have infact, one story which would get 3 moderators in deep shit, and one who could be charged with harasment, and forcing a minor to take revealing photos. Now what I am saying is, I cannot say who these are, UNTIL I CAN GET A PROPPER TALK WITH DAVID, and not this 'we want proof'. I cannot give you proof, I can give David proof.
And even if there is nothing wrong, and David can do nothing about these issues, are you trying to say that the moderators should be free to control everything on this site, and not be reviewed to check for error? or abuse of their position? This is simply standard procedure. In most forums, the administrator will review the moderators to be sure they are not abusing their position. Why not here? Is it such a big deal to have your actions looked over once a year? or perhaps bi-annualy?

If you are moderating this site so well, why are you objecting to this so much? As you can see by the poll results, the majority does want a review of the moderators

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They say learning to love yourself is the first step,
that you take when you want to be real...
Just Be - Dj Tiesto

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What you pretty much described to me would be ridiculous to think of. I can't even imagine members even wanting to go through every single action we do and then review our posts.

Fewer than 50 penalties...? That wouldn't cut with me honestly. If I can make it through 4 years and only getting 3 penalty points, I honestly think less than 10 would be more comforting and more fitting.  

You're pretty much just describing the OB... only much stricter. If you it to be more stricter, than talk to David about it. But I honestly don't think he would go for that much of a change for the OB.

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Well think of it this way, you get some high ranking members, tell em they can review the mods. They'll be able to see the actions etc, sorted. They wouldnt need to read anything, just skim, and if they noticed something unusual, take a look, and if needs be, report to David. Honest to God, if members are deidicated to this site, they'd want it to have a good moderation team. In the first hour, I had 4 members inquiring about the review option, and they said that if it ever came to happen, they would do it.

The reviewer could be given a week to look over the moderator. Yes, it is like the ob, but stricter and alows more access for the reviewer.

I dont see why it shouldnt happen? There is no flaw, just the workload, but I am sure that you could find willing members. There are over one hundred and fifty thousand sure

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They say learning to love yourself is the first step,
that you take when you want to be real...
Just Be - Dj Tiesto

Post edited at 9:19 am on Aug. 5, 2008 by TheOtherHorseman

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"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

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In an ideal world, davjs would just review things himself, of course.

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Yes, the day that happens, I'll be a moderator

Post edited at 9:31 am on Aug. 5, 2008 by Crazy snake

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They say learning to love yourself is the first step,
that you take when you want to be real...
Just Be - Dj Tiesto

If there's an issue which I'm thinking of, I know David has been notified of it. I'm quite sure no harm can come of you revealing the stuff.

If people report/have evidence then make a case.

FYI: Anything off of LW [including exchange of nudes, as long as points aren't involved] cannot be moderated on LW. So if a minor sent pictures out -- that's their fault. As long as whoever is receiving them isn't soliciting them there's nothing to do. Even then, nothing on LW can be done about it unless it's proven they are gathering a fair few images [from LW specifially ie Butters] to take them "into the real world".

Giving out nudes means you should face the consequences yourself imo. Look at that Kelsey girl.

Post edited at 1:26 am on Aug. 6, 2008 by Spice

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From a distance you look like my friend,

even though we are at war.

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I think if you're gonna complain you should be more specific.

If there's an issue which I'm thinking of, I know David has been notified of it. I'm quite sure no harm can come of you revealing the stuff.

If people report/have evidence then make a case.

FYI: Anything off of LW [including exchange of nudes, as long as points aren't involved] cannot be moderated on LW. So if a minor sent pictures out -- that's their fault. As long as whoever is receiving them isn't soliciting them there's nothing to do. Even then, nothing on LW can be done about it unless it's proven they are gathering a fair few images [from LW specifially ie Butters] to take them "into the real world".

Giving out nudes means you should face the consequences yourself imo. Look at that Kelsey girl.

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Oh, I am aware David is aware of certain issues. I am also aware of how he likes to inform his moderators of messages he receives, which involve the moderator in question. I am aware of how David likes to blab about how a certain member sent in a certain report, or asked a certain question, to all of his moderators. I am also quite aware that these are argued over in the moderator forum.

However, seeing as how a member cannot send a private message to the administrator anymore, without it being posted in the moderation forum, this is even more of a reason to believe there needs to be a review. Do you see where I am coming from?

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They say learning to love yourself is the first step,
that you take when you want to be real...
Just Be - Dj Tiesto

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Quote: from dreamweaver at 5:02 am on Aug. 2, 2008

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Crazy Snake: What did you have in mind and how would you carry this out, so that it's done appropriately? I'm just curious as to how normal members would do this...  

 And it is very true what bighead1991 said. Trust me. It does happen and we do keep each other in check.

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Basically, David, perhaps along with a select group of high ranking, regular members (MOY's only), could come together once a year. Kinda like the Oversight board, to view for moderation error. However, instead of having this weekly, we could allow 34 of these selected members, to view every little detail of any error report submitted about a moderator, view any past topics made, relating to that moderator, view all actions taken by that moderator, view the removed post forum, view everything about the moderator basically. They could have access to member notes of the moderators also, etc. Each of the selected members, could be assigned a moderator to review, given a large amount of reward points at the end of the review, as an added bonus. If the member notices any misconduct by the moderator, that member could then forward that to David, who would then review that error. Thus, it would filter out davids work, and he would only have to view the serious matters, hence, making it possible to review all moderators.  
Now that was only a quick draught, but if worked on, and improved, the idea of an annual moderator review by select members, could work.

Members would have to be over 365 days active
Have fewer than 50 penalities
Have checked a box, stating that they would be willing to review their assigned moderator.

I am aware that I am going to be ridiculed for this post, saying that this happens once a week by thhe oversight board, but I'm talking about giving the selected reviewer unlimited access to all actions made by the moderator in review, over the past 365 days.  

Yes, it seems like a workload, but it could be divided into 3 areas. Warnings issued by the moderator and why, error reports submitted by members about the moderator, and topics and posts removed by the moderator. Also, messages sent by the moderator, which have been reported, could be stored also, allowing the reviewer to review any messages reported which the moderator sent.

Like I said, I will be ridiculed, saying I am basically copying the oversight board, but I am not.

Suggestions? Ideas? Complaints? shoot

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Lol. The more you talk, the more obvious it becomes that you haven't the faintest idea about moderating or the workload undertaken on a daily basis.

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"God kissed her on the cheek and there she was."

as for what unusualone said about the whole "off LW" thing - that is true, to an extent. However I very much doubt that the exchange of explicit images from a LW moderator would ever be tolerated, regardless of the medium.

On the more down-to-earth note about your moderator review process, that simply isn't feasible. The sheer volume of actions taken by a moderator in a month, let alone a year, is hardly reviewable. I think it is also important to address the point that moderation is a VOLUNTARY task, taken out of the member's own free time. We are not paid, and we are not employed. Unless someone is acting extremely out of line (and in such cases, moderators are almost always caught out), it is nothing short of ungrateful (and downright rude, might i add) to impose such rigorous, insulting measures on someone who is going out of their way to do a huge favour to this site.

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"God kissed her on the cheek and there she was."