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Quote: from newman at 11:37 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008

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Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"

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   But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist.

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  I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.    

  You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind.

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 Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing.  

 You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different?

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I see your point. I'm directly relating the situation to those people who do let it seem to stitch the very fabric of their lives.  

And who says I'm that strong about believing he doesn't exist? I have my reasons for not believing in him. It's a troublesome concept that I don't wish to discuss.

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If people are happy with their faith, just let them be.  Happiness is our ultimate goal in life.

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:40 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from newman at 11:37 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008

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Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"

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    But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist.

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   I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.    

   You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind.

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  Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing.  

  You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different?

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 I see your point. I'm directly relating the situation to those people who do let it seem to stitch the very fabric of their lives.  

 And who says I'm that strong about believing he doesn't exist? I have my reasons for not believing in him. It's a troublesome concept that I don't wish to discuss.

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If people are happy with their faith, just let them be.  Happiness is our ultimate goal in life.

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So, in retrospect, I can be happy without faith. Therefore, those trying to force faith (not pointing fingers, speaking rhetorically here) should see that I'm happy without it

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Ich werde immer bei dir sein

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Quote: from newman at 11:42 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:40 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from newman at 11:37 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008

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Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"

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     But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist.

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    I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.      

    You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind.

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   Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing.    

   You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different?

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  I see your point. I'm directly relating the situation to those people who do let it seem to stitch the very fabric of their lives.    

  And who says I'm that strong about believing he doesn't exist? I have my reasons for not believing in him. It's a troublesome concept that I don't wish to discuss.

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 If people are happy with their faith, just let them be.  Happiness is our ultimate goal in life.

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So, in retrospect, I can be happy without faith. Therefore, those trying to force faith (not pointing fingers, speaking rhetorically here) should see that I'm happy without it

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Just clarifying what faith is :)

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Just clarifying what faith is :)

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Quote: from newman at 4:49 pm on July 31, 2008

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Just clarifying what faith is :)

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And yet you still haven't demonstrated that a non-believer must have it in order to be such.

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What?

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Quote: from SpM at 8:52 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from newman at 4:49 pm on July 31, 2008

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Just clarifying what faith is :)

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 And yet you still haven't demonstrated that a non-believer must have it in order to be such.

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What?

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Quote: from newman at 4:52 pm on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from SpM at 8:52 am on July 31, 2008

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Quote: from newman at 4:49 pm on July 31, 2008

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Just clarifying what faith is :)

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  And yet you still haven't demonstrated that a non-believer must have it in order to be such.

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 What?

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Please demonstrate that all non-believers must have faith that Jesus is not our Saviour.

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Faith: complete confidence in a person or plan etc;  loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person;

If you have "complete confidence" that Jesus was not God's son, that is FAITH that He was not God's son.

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Faith: complete confidence in a person or plan etc; loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person;

If you have "complete confidence" that Jesus was not God's son, that is FAITH that He was not God's son.

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 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
 3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
 6. A set of principles or beliefs.

Firstly, when anyone refers to faith in a religious context, it is perfectly clear they are referring to one of the highlighted definitions (generally the 2nd), and pretending otherwise is misleading and juvenile.

Secondly, no I do not have complete confidence that Jesus is not the Son of God. I simply have no reason to believe he is.

Post edited at 9:02 am on July 31, 2008 by SpM

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Quote: from newman at 4:56 pm on July 31, 2008

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Faith: complete confidence in a person or plan etc;  loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person;  

If you have "complete confidence" that Jesus was not God's son, that is FAITH that He was not God's son.

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faith
(fāth) pronunciation
 
faith
n.

 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
 3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
 6. A set of principles or beliefs.

Firstly, when anyone refers to faith in a religious context, it is perfectly clear they are referring to one of the highlighted definitions (generally the 2nd), and pretending otherwise is misleading and juvenile.

Secondly, no I do not have complete confidence that Jesus is not the Son of God. I simply have no reason to believe he is.

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You can use the definitions I found for both of the scenarios.  I have faith, that Jesus was the Son of God, that doesn't necessarily mean it's religious faith, religion just happens to be the subject we're talking about.  If I have faith that my friend is not lying to me, that's not religious.

Is there ANY proof that Jesus wasn't the Son of God?  Nope.  You don't need to believe He was.

I guess if you don't believe in it strongly, you just have no faith whatsoever.  If you absolutely insist that He was not the son of God, then yeah, that's faith that he wasn't.