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Quote: from kylesmith786 at 5:21 pm on July 17, 2008

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Where do you have prove about Prophet Muhammad( peace be upon him) ????  

 Have you ever read the Qu'ran??  

 

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Why would I, I'm an atheist with no interest in what a holy book says. However, I'm not ignorant, so don't...

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you could not be ignorant but prejudging , Allah or Muhammad have never encourage violence where's ur proof ? and even u mean jihad..what's done by some extremists is not jihad

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§ I LOVE YOU MEDITERRANEAN BOYS §

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 8:04 pm on July 17, 2008

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Secondly, Islam the religion is neither good nor bad. It is an idea and it is neutral. It is in the hands of people that it is used for good or for evil, as is the case with every religion.

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Do you believe in this specific instance that Islam is neutral, or do you believe that an idea, a belief system CANNOT be anything but neutral?

There aren't beliefs that are bad even when unpracticed/interpreted differently?

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Consider: if even the worst idea was never put into practice, would it truly be bad? Or is it simply the practice of ideas that makes them evil or good?

I tend to think that 99% of the time, beliefs, particularly of a religious nature, are neither good nor bad in and of themselves, and that it's solely the way in which they're practiced that makes them good or bad.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

Only atheists(fucking gays) do.

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German born, filipino by heart.

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There's nothing that is neutral. Not even religion. It always takes sides. 'cause when you say it's neutral, it is the same as saying that religion doesn't believe in God nor in Satan.

Only atheists(fucking gays) do.

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Religion has no consciousness.  It is a system of writings and structures. It does not "believe" in anything, including God and Satan.  It only advocated belief.
Only it's followers can decide how to put it into practice and use it for whatever cause they see fit.

And I have no idea what sort of nonsense you are trying to explain about atheists, or "fucking gays" as you so intelligently phrased it.  It makes no sense whatsoever.

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Tetrapharmakos

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There's nothing that is neutral. Not even religion. It always takes sides. 'cause when you say it's neutral, it is the same as saying that religion doesn't believe in God nor in Satan.

Only atheists(fucking gays) do.

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Religion, not being a sentient being, can't take sides. It is neutral except in the hands of people.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Consider: if even the worst idea was never put into practice, would it truly be bad? Or is it simply the practice of ideas that makes them evil or good?

I tend to think that 99% of the time, beliefs, particularly of a religious nature, are neither good nor bad in and of themselves, and that it's solely the way in which they're practiced that makes them good or bad.

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I'm afraid I do believe that a belief, unpracticed or not, can be bad or good, including religious ones.

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"Hé! Donne-moi mon cadeau et on jasera après! Gros poilu!" - Asymptote

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 4:58 am on July 18, 2008

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Consider: if even the worst idea was never put into practice, would it truly be bad? Or is it simply the practice of ideas that makes them evil or good?  

 I tend to think that 99% of the time, beliefs, particularly of a religious nature, are neither good nor bad in and of themselves, and that it's solely the way in which they're practiced that makes them good or bad.

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I'm afraid I do believe that a belief, unpracticed or not, can be bad or good, including religious ones.

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How can a belief by itself be bad or good?

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Islam is a good religion, and Muslims are good people - in spite of the founder of the religion.

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=====================================
Peace!

Can a bad tree produce good fruits?

The blessed holy prophet  was called The Truthful and The Trustworthy throughout his life from choldhood. He stood up for oppressed, helped the needy and reestablished the lost morals.

After his claim of Unity of God, holy prophet Muhammad's well-wishers began to harbour ill for him. Friends turned into foes. He braved such hardships which are beyond a pretender and imposter to suffer through.

He started his life  as a powerless, helpless, unlettered, and unaided moneyless  orphan.

He brought the message of God  and succeeded against great nations of world  who had plentitude of financial, military, and intellectual means.

He brought forth resplendent education with conclusive arguments, irrefutable proofs which dumb-founded every opponent.

To excel the whole world in spirit, wisdom, knowledge and strength, can this be accomplished without the help of God? ------- Poses the question, his subserviant The Ahmadiyya reformer.

In religious evolution, his was  perfection-step of the message of (All Blessed)  Adam to Abraham to Moses to Jesus . His education declared all of them the  pure and holy servants of God and cleared all allegations which were put on them by enemies of religion.

Statistically it is provable that his message flourished during peace years. Only after great sufferings of 13-long years, he and his followers were  allowed by God  for self defence but  with lot of restrictions; NOW conditions gone, swords gone. Time is for striving for self-excellence with pen and morals. If today some people are abusing his all-peace education for their political wars, blame should not go to Holiness Muhammad.  Two world wars were fought mainly among christains BUT blame can not be put on Bible.

STATISTICS:
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1)-- War waged at BADAR* on muslims in 2nd year of migration of holy prophet . Muslims were 313 versus  1000 opponents. (For 13 long years muslims  were persecuted but never retaliated)

2)-- War waged on muslims on 3rd year of migration  at OHAD. Muslims were 700  versus 3000 opponents.

3)-- 6th year of migration peace truce of no-war between  muslims and opponents at HUDABIYA. Peace message was spread.

4)-- Muslims came to Mecca victorious in 10,000 .

RESULT:  During wars progress was slow but in peace time, message of love to God and love to Humanity fast spread.

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BADAR* = Meccans were outraged on the safe migration of the holy prophet and his progress in Medina. On the second year of the Hijrah (holy Prophet's escape from Mecca) , the Prophet learnt that the Meccans/ Quresh were coming to Medina with a big army. He wanted  to meet the enemy far away from the town. He also came to know that a big trade caravan of the Quresh was on its way to Mecca; the Meccan army was there ostensibly to protect it. The prophet was prepared as best as he could. But he had not many means for an armed conflict.

The Meccans had raised a big force. They had enlisted every fighting man. Only two chiefs of the town were not willing to join them. One was Abu Lahab, an uncle, but a great enemy of the Prophet. His sister had had a fearful dream. He was frightened on that account. The other was Umaiyya bin Khalaf, another bitter enemy of Islam. He greatly feared death. He had learnt that Prophet had predicted that he would die in the battlefield. He knew the Prophet spoke the truth but he was forced to join the army against his will.
--w.alislam.org

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A good source: http://alislam.org/library/books/muhammad_seal_of_the_prophets/  written by a scholar who was ex president of United Nation's General assembly and ex president of International Court of Justice, hague, Holland.

Post edited at 3:47 am on July 24, 2008 by Luv4allHatred4non

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Can a bad tree produce good fruits?

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I would say that Islamic terrorism is the contemporary fruit of the Sunnah.

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Two world wars were fought mainly among christains BUT blame can not be put on Bible.

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That's because no one has ever been killed following the Sunnah of Jesus.  The same can't be said for following the Sunnah of Muhammad.

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War waged at BADAR on muslims in 2nd year of migration of holy prophet . Muslims were 313 versus 1000 opponents.

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The battle of Badr was an attempt by the Meccans to defend their caravan from a Muslim raid... so who started the trouble here?

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6th year of migration peace truce of no-war between muslims and opponents at HUDABIYA. Peace message was spread.

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Are you saying the battle of Hudabiya was in self defense for the Muslims?  Lol, surely you jest.

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Muslims came to Mecca victorious in 10,000

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How unfortunate for the poets and apostates who were on Muhammad's list to be killed even if they were hiding in the Kabaa itself.

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During wars progress was slow but in peace time, message of love to God and love to Humanity fast spread.

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Indeed.  Imperialistic religions tend to spread very quickly.  

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Every Post You Make Goes To Charity

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How can a belief by itself be bad or good?

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The nature of the belief tends to affect its practice, doesn't it?

A belief is bad when its practice would tend to be bad because of the nature of a belief. (IMO of course)

"I believe that rape is ultimately beneficial to society because it keeps promiscuous women honest."

That's a bad belief, whether put into practice (somehow) or no. Don't you agree?

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"Hé! Donne-moi mon cadeau et on jasera après! Gros poilu!" - Asymptote

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How would that be bad if it wasn't put into practice? I mean, it's a weird belief and one that most people wouldn't hold, but if Joe Schmoe who holds it isn't skipping around raping people or encouraging others to do the same, how is it inherently bad?

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I don't have a really good way to answer this. Is a torture device bad when it is unused? Yes, I believe it is, because its nature (what it is created for, designed for, intended for) is bad. A belief can be bad in the same way.

Why is it so easy to attribute good and bad to human action but not to human idea?

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"Hé! Donne-moi mon cadeau et on jasera après! Gros poilu!" - Asymptote