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If your allowed to post your view, why aren't Christians allowed to post theirs?

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There is not only one truth. This world is made up of many different perceptions, and humans cannot possibly understand all of them. You see one truth, i see another. Truth is different for everyone.

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Quote: from Taking at 3:00 am on July 22, 2008

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Quote: from hanie at 2:51 am on July 22, 2008

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Truth is different to fact.  

  The bible is not fact, obviously. Most Christians will also admit that there are 'flaws' however big or small.  

  But the bible, for many people, is truth. What they believe, and choose to believe. Just like other non-Christians gets to believe in other religions/theorys/etc.    

  If that book is going to give people clarity in there lifes and strength when they need it, why is it a bad thing?  

     
  please reply.

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 There is only one truth. There are no different truths to logical answers.  

 2 + 2 = 4, not 8. You belief in this situation makes no difference. The answer will never be 8.  

 Mental fortitude is fine. It is just the baggage that accompanies religion that irks. If people just read their fairy tale books in peace, there would be no problem. If people would stop trying to stop abortion and anything that isn't acceptable in that fairy book, then there would be no problem. Stick to your book. Read your story. Don't try to use your book as proof for anything pertaining to society.  

 

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Practise what you preach?

Why do you feel the need to post your view on here then? Your reasoning that Christianity is false is your 'own book'. If your allowed to post your view, why aren't Christians allowed to post theirs?

There is not only one truth. This world is made up of many different perceptions, and humans cannot possibly understand all of them. You see one truth, i see another. Truth is different for everyone.

 
What you have also not taken into account is that the bible was written 2000 years ago by people that had seen/heard of Jesus. Not by Jesus or god. Therefore there is obviously going to be flaws, as people do not remember accurately or well.

People wrote the bible because they thought what Jesus had done was so amazing, and it was. 2000 years later millions of people still believe in it.

 

 

 
PS. just so you know, I'm not a Christian.

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So, human logic and reasoning is now akin to the Harry Potter franchise as well as the Bible?

It is a fairy tale that doesn't exist?

Give me a break.

The Bible has to be accurate in everything it says. If it is not, then nothing can be trusted. If nothing can be trusted and we know there are inconsistencies as well as falsfications, then it is now a book of fiction. Essentially, a book of lies. It is about as reliable as Harry Potter.

2 + 2 = 4.

That is fact and truth. It is both factual and truthful.

There is no proof that Jesus ever existed and having a million idiots believe the Earth is flat doesn't change the fact that the Earth was never flat. Having a gross number of people privy to a belief doesn't serve as proof that that belief is true. It subjectively proves that said belief is believable.

And I never said Christians couldn't post their beliefs. As long as they know their beliefs are false and don't post them as if they were true. Besides, people don't care for lies.

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No matter how sincerely a mental patient believes he can fly, he'll still end up as paté if he leaps from a rooftop. Reality is reality, regardless of our perceptions.

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I'm talking about the concept of faith, not fact.

Try and think about it this way.. 300 or so years ago people believed the world was flat. That was there perception of truth, anyone that said that wasn't true was crazy. But now, we know more, we know that out perception of truth was wrong.

So.. you think Jesus was wrong (or whatever it is you believe) but others think that the bible is completely right, most people are somewhere in between. As of yet, humans cannot distinguish between these truths to call any of them facts.

People must rely on there own reasoning, and i think (most) Christians have a good perception of truth. (IE not counting the ones that take every word literally)

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Quote: from hanie at 3:12 am on July 22, 2008

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Quote: from Taking at 3:00 am on July 22, 2008

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Quote: from hanie at 2:51 am on July 22, 2008

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Truth is different to fact.  

  The bible is not fact, obviously. Most Christians will also admit that there are 'flaws' however big or small.  

  But the bible, for many people, is truth. What they believe, and choose to believe. Just like other non-Christians gets to believe in other religions/theorys/etc.

  If that book is going to give people clarity in there lifes and strength when they need it, why is it a bad thing?  

 
  please reply.

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  There is only one truth. There are no different truths to logical answers.

  2 + 2 = 4, not 8. You belief in this situation makes no difference. The answer will never be 8.

  Mental fortitude is fine. It is just the baggage that accompanies religion that irks. If people just read their fairy tale books in peace, there would be no problem. If people would stop trying to stop abortion and anything that isn't acceptable in that fairy book, then there would be no problem. Stick to your book. Read your story. Don't try to use your book as proof for anything pertaining to society.  

 

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 Practise what you preach?  

 Why do you feel the need to post your view on here then? Your reasoning that Christianity is false is your 'own book'. If your allowed to post your view, why aren't Christians allowed to post theirs?  

 There is not only one truth. This world is made up of many different perceptions, and humans cannot possibly understand all of them. You see one truth, i see another. Truth is different for everyone.  

 
 What you have also not taken into account is that the bible was written 2000 years ago by people that had seen/heard of Jesus. Not by Jesus or god. Therefore there is obviously going to be flaws, as people do not remember accurately or well.  

 People wrote the bible because they thought what Jesus had done was so amazing, and it was. 2000 years later millions of people still believe in it.  

 

 

 
 PS. just so you know, I'm not a Christian.

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So, human logic and reasoning is now akin to the Harry Potter franchise as well as the Bible?

It is a fairy tale that doesn't exist?

Give me a break.  

The Bible has to be accurate in everything it says. If it is not, then nothing can be trusted. If nothing can be trusted and we know there are inconsistencies as well as falsfications, then it is now a book of fiction. Essentially, a book of lies. It is about as reliable as Harry Potter.  

2 + 2 = 4.

That is fact and truth. It is both factual and truthful.

There is no proof that Jesus ever existed and having a million idiots believe the Earth is flat doesn't change the fact that the Earth was never flat. Having a gross number of people privy to a belief doesn't serve as proof that that belief is true. It subjectively proves that said belief is believable.

And I never said Christians couldn't post their beliefs. As long as they know their beliefs are false and don't post them as if they were true. Besides, people don't care for lies.

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The bible is not lies, its interprtaions.

If you asked 500 people that witnessed the 9/11 to write down what they saw each would be different. Some would contains extra bits that people thought they saw but did not, some would miss bits out. But none of them would be lies, just different truths.

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I'm talking about the concept of faith, not fact.  

Try and think about it this way.. 300 or so years ago people believed the world was flat. That was there perception of truth, anyone that said that wasn't true was crazy. But now, we know". more, we know that out perception of truth was wrong.  

So.. you think Jesus was wrong (or whatever it is you believe) but others think that the bible is completely right, most people are somewhere in between. As of yet, humans cannot distinguish between these truths to call any of them facts.  

People must rely on there own reasoning, and i think (most) Christians have a good perception of truth. (IE not counting the ones that take every word literally)

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The Universe does not reorganise itself around our beliefs, and there is no reason to shy away from debate or research just because there is faith involved.

edit: Not to mention, many interpretations of the Bible can be objectively disproven. No doubt, no interpretation, just massive amounts of evidence. Isn't that nice?

Post edited at 3:35 am on July 22, 2008 by SpM

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But none of them would be lies, just different truths.

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There is no proof that Jesus ever existed and having a million idiots believe the Earth is flat doesn't change the fact that the Earth was never flat. Having a gross number of people privy to a belief doesn't serve as proof that that belief is true. It subjectively proves that said belief is believable.

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that's were your wrong. there is proof he exsisted. Not just in the bible. What shouldbe debated is wether he was the Son of God or not

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Pandora didn't think outside the box

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Quote: from SpM at 3:21 am on July 22, 2008

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 No matter how sincerely a mental patient believes he can fly, he'll still end up as paté if he leaps from a rooftop. Reality is reality, regardless of our perceptions.

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I'm talking about the concept of faith, not fact.  

Try and think about it this way.. 300 or so years ago people believed the world was flat. That was there perception of truth, anyone that said that wasn't true was crazy. But now, we know more, we know that out perception of truth was wrong.  

So.. you think Jesus was wrong (or whatever it is you believe) but others think that the bible is completely right, most people are somewhere in between. As of yet, humans cannot distinguish between these truths to call any of them facts.  

People must rely on there own reasoning, and i think (most) Christians have a good perception of truth. (IE not counting the ones that take every word literally)

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Faith doesn't rely on reason or fact. It is just blind belief.

I don't care about Christian morality. Your perception of "reality" can be seen as your definable "truth" but that renders "truth" immaterial and changing. But, reality, as seen by a majority human mind, deems that truth is not immaterial and that it is not changing. What is true now is always true (from facts we believe to be unchanging). You being a manic depressive who thinks Bugs Bunny is trying to rape you is a delusion seperate from the average human mind. It is "your" truth but it is not universal truth.

And it is universal truth that is in discussion here,

Universal Truth is not subjective. It is objective.
2 + 2 = 4, this is true. It is not false. It is not subjective.  

And I believe Jesus never existed. He couldn't be wrong because he never existed. Humans can distinguish between truth and lies. It is called cognitive reasoning. 300 years ago, what people believed about the Earth wasn't universally true, it was false.

Post edited at 3:44 am on July 22, 2008 by Takinam

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Quote: from hanie at 11:29 am on July 22, 2008

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I'm talking about the concept of faith, not fact.

Try and think about it this way.. 300 or so years ago people believed the world was flat. That was there perception of truth, anyone that said that wasn't true was crazy. But now, we know". more, we know that out perception of truth was wrong.

So.. you think Jesus was wrong (or whatever it is you believe) but others think that the bible is completely right, most people are somewhere in between. As of yet, humans cannot distinguish between these truths to call any of them facts.

People must rely on there own reasoning, and i think (most) Christians have a good perception of truth. (IE not counting the ones that take every word literally)

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There is a very big difference between acknowledging that we don't or can't know the truth yet, and saying "there is no truth and everyone is right, isn't this nice?"

The Universe does not reorganise itself around our beliefs, and there is no reason to shy away from debate or research just because there is faith involved.

edit: Not to mention, many interpretations of the Bible can be objectively disproven. No doubt, no interpretation, just massive amounts of evidence. Isn't that nice?

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Ive never said there is no truth.

I think you are confused by the way i am using the word truth.

I agree that there is a clear difference between fact and fiction. But, i believe truth is how people interpreter the facts mixed with their own opions. It is fact that there was a man called Jesus, and it is opion on weather he was amazing or just an ordinary man. The bible is a mixture of facts, opions, and interpretations. that helps people find there own 'truth'/(faith)

and there is no massive amounts of evidence, there is more evidence FOR christianity than there is against.

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Quote: from SpM at 3:34 am on July 22, 2008

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Quote: from hanie at 11:29 am on July 22, 2008

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I'm talking about the concept of faith, not fact.    

 Try and think about it this way.. 300 or so years ago people believed the world was flat. That was there perception of truth, anyone that said that wasn't true was crazy. But now, we know". more, we know that out perception of truth was wrong.    

 So.. you think Jesus was wrong (or whatever it is you believe) but others think that the bible is completely right, most people are somewhere in between. As of yet, humans cannot distinguish between these truths to call any of them facts.    

 People must rely on there own reasoning, and i think (most) Christians have a good perception of truth. (IE not counting the ones that take every word literally)

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 There is a very big difference between acknowledging that we don't or can't know the truth yet, and saying "there is no truth and everyone is right, isn't this nice?"  

 The Universe does not reorganise itself around our beliefs, and there is no reason to shy away from debate or research just because there is faith involved.  

 edit: Not to mention, many interpretations of the Bible can be objectively disproven. No doubt, no interpretation, just massive amounts of evidence. Isn't that nice?

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Ive never said there is no truth.  

I think you are confused by the way i am using the word truth.  

I agree that there is a clear difference between fact and fiction. But, i believe truth is how people interpreter the facts mixed with their own opions. It is fact that there was a man called Jesus, and it is opion on weather he was amazing or just an ordinary man. The bible is a mixture of facts, opions, and interpretations. that helps people find there own 'truth'/(faith)  

and there is no massive amounts of evidence, there is more evidence FOR christianity than there is against.

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No.

There is no opinion in "truth". Math isn't opinionated.

I would like 2 + 2 to be 8, but it is not 8. And that is it. I find it hard to misinterpret 4 as 8, and even if I did misinterpret it, it is still a untrue and can be classified as a lie.

It is not fact that there is a man named Jesus that did spectacular fears. Just like it is not a fact that Harry Potter exists at this very moment and flies around on his broom. It is a fact that book are characters within books.

These accounts can be "misinterpreted" and Harry Potter was actually a giant bird.

Quote: from hanie at 3:46 am on July 22, 2008

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and there is no massive amounts of evidence, there is more evidence FOR christianity than there is against.

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Falling into the theist trap, are we?

Lol. Massive evidence for Christianity?

Where is this massive evidence?
 

Your obviously new to this forum. There is no absolutely no evidence for Christianity. Which is the problem.

Post edited at 3:54 am on July 22, 2008 by Takinam

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Ive never said there is no truth.

I think you are confused by the way i am using the word truth.

I agree that there is a clear difference between fact and fiction. But, i believe truth is how people interpreter the facts mixed with their own opions. It is fact that there was a man called Jesus, and it is opion on weather he was amazing or just an ordinary man. The bible is a mixture of facts, opions, and interpretations. that helps people find there own 'truth'/(faith)

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and there is no massive amounts of evidence, there is more evidence FOR christianity than there is against.

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Of course it's perfectly possible to be a Christian without believing in a literal interpretation of those passages, but that seems to be beside the point here.

YOU believe he never existed, that is not universally true.
Can i just ask what proof you have that he dusnt exist? none? Thats your INTERPRETATION.

Proof that Jesus exists is all from hearsay accounts, although not hard evidence, more evidence that if he existed or not.

I think its pretty ridiculous to say he didn't exist, why would 100s of people waste there time writing the bible?

the argument is if he was the son of god or not.

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And I believe Jesus never existed. He couldn't be wrong because he never existed. Humans can distinguish between truth and lies. It is called cognitive reasoning. 300 years ago, what people believed about the Earth wasn't universally true, it was false.[\quote]  

YOU believe he never existed, that is not universally true.  
Can i just ask what proof you have that he dusnt exist? none? Thats your INTERPRETATION.  

 
Proof that Jesus exists is all from hearsay accounts, although not hard evidence, more evidence that if he existed or not.  

I think its pretty ridiculous to say he didn't exist, why would 100s of people waste there time writing the bible?  

 
the argument is if he was the son of god or not.

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I didn't say my believing Jesus doesn't exist was universally true. Lol. That doesn't even make sense. Hundreds of people spent their time believing the Earth was flat. Does that make it true?

Hundreds of people hold popular myths as fact. Does that make the myths any truer? Enough. As I've said before, belief doesn't entitle truth. Fools writing a book all believing in same fairy tale is an extremely plausible possibility. Fools have written about human origin and fools have gotten it wrong. Darwin got some of it right.  Hundreds of fools marking the edge of the world on a map illustrates the same human stupidity. Hundreds of men did it. But it never existed and wasn't true.

The evidence I use to base my belief that Jesus never existed is the same evidence I use to base my belief that unicorns don't exist. There is no evidence that either of them exist, therefore, they don't as far as I'm concerned. That is an approximation of how my logic works. Maybe you believe Jesus, Unicorns and Trolls. I don't.

The argument is whether or not God exists. And whether or not Jesus ever existed.  

Post edited at 4:03 am on July 22, 2008 by Takinam

where is there evidence he dusnt exsist?

Evoultuion and genisis are almost the same thing!

God made the world in 7 days.. first was light and dark, then was plants, then animals, then humans.

The world was made over millions of years, first the planets, then simple plant life, simple fish, more complex land animals, then humans.

When the bible was written the word Day ment period of time, basically 7 stages. The bible is the story of evolution watered down the make it easier to understand.

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Quote: from hanie at 3:55 am on July 22, 2008

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And I believe Jesus never existed. He couldn't be wrong because he never existed. Humans can distinguish between truth and lies. It is called cognitive reasoning. 300 years ago, what people believed about the Earth wasn't universally true, it was false.[\quote]

YOU believe he never existed, that is not universally true.
Can i just ask what proof you have that he dusnt exist? none? Thats your INTERPRETATION.

Proof that Jesus exists is all from hearsay accounts, although not hard evidence, more evidence that if he existed or not.

I think its pretty ridiculous to say he didn't exist, why would 100s of people waste there time writing the bible?

the argument is if he was the son of god or not.

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I didn't say my believing Jesus doesn't exist was universally true. Lol. That doesn't even make sense. Hundreds of people spent their time believing the Earth was flat. Does that make it true?

Hundreds of people hold popular myths as fact. Does that make the myths any truer? Enough. As I've said before, belief doesn't entitle truth. Fools writing a book all believing in same fairy tale is an extremely plausible possibility. Fools have written about human origin and fools have gotten it wrong. Darwin got some of it right. Hundreds of fools marking the edge of the world on a map illustrates the same human stupidity. Hundreds of men did it. But it never existed and wasn't true.

The evidence I use to base my belief that Jesus never existed is the same evidence I use to base my belief that unicorns don't exist. There is no evidence that either of them exist, therefore, they don't as far as I'm concerned. That is an approximation of how my logic works. Maybe you believe Jesus, Unicorns and Trolls. I don't.

The argument is whether or not God exists. And whether or not Jesus ever existed.

 

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I think believe dose make truth. The truth for everyone is different and the truth changes.

I'm sorry but your unable to change my opion.