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Quote: from jamesish at 5:30 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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I didn't mention that in my topic.  But, I've wondered about that.  Isn't welfare of an animal a right?  If you say no, then the welfare of a human is no different.  Governments shouldn't care.

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No, they're both different things.

Welfare is to look after the animal responsibly.

Rights is to treat the animal as if it were human. And while I believe animals are not lower than humans, they are also different. You can't treat animals as though they are humans.

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So "rights" is only a human quality to you?  And why can't you treat them as humans? They're human's best friends.  They're lovable.  But they have no rights?  In that case, lets just evaporate the animal cruelty laws.  They dont deserve it.

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Quote: from qi at 12:35 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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I don't support PETA.  As for the ASPCA, well, I'm not a fan of the way they take care of their animals and their kill policy. I have donated to numerous non-kill shelters.  I have also fed, spayed, and neutered multiple colonies of homeless cats before.

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qi you is my heroooo

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Should also be noted that animal rights activists do not believe in working dogs. Horseback riding and bee-keeping are also out of the question. And many of those organizations have been fighting a brick wall trying to get these things outlawed.

I guess it's okay to support keeping a dog from following the instincts we've bred into them over centuries, even millenniums.

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Oh yeah totally, we've bred animals for hunting, and things like sheep herding. BUT OH NOES! THATS NOT FAIR. We shouldn't allow these animals to do things we've particularly bred them for.

Yeah, because not stimulating an animals mind is totally the right way to go

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From a distance you look like my friend,

even though we are at war.

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Quote: from jamesish at 5:40 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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So because animals can't talk, they're not smart. That white dog on TV can't ride a skateboard? That seems pretty smart to me. We're animals ourselves in a sense.

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Correction, we are animals.

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Well ok then.  They have rights like us.

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Quote: from noahjk at 12:34 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from jamesish at 9:30 am on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from UnusualOne at 12:28 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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NOT ANIMAL RIGHTS.    

  ANIMAL WELFARE.    

  That's my opinion, extremist animal rights people are nuts.    

  Welfare however, is a different matter.

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  I didn't mention that in my topic.  But, I've wondered about that.  Isn't welfare of an animal a right?  If you say no, then the welfare of a human is no different.  Governments shouldn't care.

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Animals will never be as important as humans. Just based on the fact that you and I are having this conversation right now, you can tell that humans are much smarter than any animals. If animals deserved rights that were as developed as human rights, they would have to be smart enough to do something about it.

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So because animals can't talk, they're not smart. That white dog on TV can't ride a skateboard? That seems pretty smart to me. We're animals ourselves in a sense.

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See...you are already taking it to an extreme viewpoint. And this is why I stick to the animal welfare.
They are the ones that get laws passed. They are the ones that are out at disaster sites helping animals.

I don't ever recall seeing ALF or PeTA in the news for their efforts during Katrina. Yet organizations such as IFAW bent over backwards to get there and help as many animals be saved, and reunited with their families, while at the same time stopping foreign countries from using Whaling as a tourist attraction and making sure the pandas in China were okay after the recent earthquake.

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So "rights" is only a human quality to you? And why can't you treat them as humans? They're human's best friends. They're lovable. But they have no rights? In that case, lets just evaporate the animal cruelty laws. They dont deserve it.

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Animal rights people want to apply human rights to animals.

How can you apply something from the species of humans to all the other species? Everything on this planet differs in one way or another.

Oh god, preventing animal cruelty is providing the welfare for the animal, not rights!

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From a distance you look like my friend,

even though we are at war.

If you like, I can give you the websites of my local shelters and you can ask them on your own? They'll be happy to tell you, especially the Norfolk Animal Control and Norfolk SPCA, that they have become extremely particular regarding outside volunteers.

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Quote: from jamesish at 12:40 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from noahjk at 12:34 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from jamesish at 9:30 am on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from UnusualOne at 12:28 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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NOT ANIMAL RIGHTS.

   ANIMAL WELFARE.

   That's my opinion, extremist animal rights people are nuts.

   Welfare however, is a different matter.

---

   

  I didn't mention that in my topic. But, I've wondered about that. Isn't welfare of an animal a right? If you say no, then the welfare of a human is no different. Governments shouldn't care.

---

Animals will never be as important as humans. Just based on the fact that you and I are having this conversation right now, you can tell that humans are much smarter than any animals. If animals deserved rights that were as developed as human rights, they would have to be smart enough to do something about it.

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 So because animals can't talk, they're not smart.  That white dog on TV can't ride a skateboard?  That seems pretty smart to me.  We're animals ourselves in a sense.

---

See...you are already taking it to an extreme viewpoint. And this is why I stick to the animal welfare.
They are the ones that get laws passed. They are the ones that are out at disaster sites helping animals.

I don't ever recall seeing ALF or PeTA in the news for their efforts during Katrina. Yet organizations such as IFAW bent over backwards to get there and help as many animals be saved, and reunited with their families, while at the same time stopping foreign countries from using Whaling as a tourist attraction and making sure the pandas in China were okay after the recent earthquake.

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I did leave out other common known organizations.  But these two are the most famous.  Whether its for good or bad reasons.

And I dont think I have a have a strong viewpoint on it.  I'll eat chicken in a heart beat.  My main focus was for animals like that dog picture.  I reread the PETA description and maybe I chose the wrong organization for the purpose of this topic.

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Quote: from The Raven at 12:43 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from jamesish at 12:40 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from noahjk at 12:34 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from jamesish at 9:30 am on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from UnusualOne at 12:28 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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NOT ANIMAL RIGHTS.      

    ANIMAL WELFARE.      

    That's my opinion, extremist animal rights people are nuts.      

    Welfare however, is a different matter.

---

   I didn't mention that in my topic.  But, I've wondered about that.  Isn't welfare of an animal a right?  If you say no, then the welfare of a human is no different.  Governments shouldn't care.

---

Animals will never be as important as humans. Just based on the fact that you and I are having this conversation right now, you can tell that humans are much smarter than any animals. If animals deserved rights that were as developed as human rights, they would have to be smart enough to do something about it.

---

   
  So because animals can't talk, they're not smart. That white dog on TV can't ride a skateboard? That seems pretty smart to me. We're animals ourselves in a sense.

---

 

 See...you are already taking it to an extreme viewpoint. And this is why I stick to the animal welfare.  
 They are the ones that get laws passed. They are the ones that are out at disaster sites helping animals.  

 I don't ever recall seeing ALF or PeTA in the news for their efforts during Katrina. Yet organizations such as IFAW bent over backwards to get there and help as many animals be saved, and reunited with their families, while at the same time stopping foreign countries from using Whaling as a tourist attraction and making sure the pandas in China were okay after the recent earthquake.

---

I did leave out other common known organizations. But these two are the most famous. Whether its for good or bad reasons.

And I dont think I have a have a strong viewpoint on it. I'll eat chicken in a heart beat. My main focus was for animals like that dog picture. I reread the PETA description and maybe I chose the wrong organization for the purpose of this topic.

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You're not very educated. This is very apparent when you make it known that you don't care exactly what the organizations are known for. Whether it be 'good or bad'.

Hole dug. Thank you for proving my point here.

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Quote: from jamesish at 5:42 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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So "rights" is only a human quality to you?  And why can't you treat them as humans? They're human's best friends.  They're lovable.  But they have no rights?  In that case, lets just evaporate the animal cruelty laws.  They dont deserve it.

---

Animal rights people want to apply human rights to animals.

How can you apply something from the species of humans to all the other species? Everything on this planet differs in one way or another.

Oh god, preventing animal cruelty is providing the welfare for the animal, not rights!

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Ok so an animal doesn't deserve the right of life.  I got it.  We save them for their welfare, not their right to life.

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Quote: from jamesish at 12:47 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from The Raven at 12:43 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from jamesish at 12:40 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from noahjk at 12:34 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from jamesish at 9:30 am on Aug. 21, 2008

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Quote: from UnusualOne at 12:28 pm on Aug. 21, 2008

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NOT ANIMAL RIGHTS.        

   ANIMAL WELFARE.        

   That's my opinion, extremist animal rights people are nuts.        

   Welfare however, is a different matter.

---

  I didn't mention that in my topic.  But, I've wondered about that.  Isn't welfare of an animal a right?  If you say no, then the welfare of a human is no different.  Governments shouldn't care.

---

Animals will never be as important as humans. Just based on the fact that you and I are having this conversation right now, you can tell that humans are much smarter than any animals. If animals deserved rights that were as developed as human rights, they would have to be smart enough to do something about it.

---

   
 So because animals can't talk, they're not smart. That white dog on TV can't ride a skateboard? That seems pretty smart to me. We're animals ourselves in a sense.

---

   

See...you are already taking it to an extreme viewpoint. And this is why I stick to the animal welfare.    
They are the ones that get laws passed. They are the ones that are out at disaster sites helping animals.    

I don't ever recall seeing ALF or PeTA in the news for their efforts during Katrina. Yet organizations such as IFAW bent over backwards to get there and help as many animals be saved, and reunited with their families, while at the same time stopping foreign countries from using Whaling as a tourist attraction and making sure the pandas in China were okay after the recent earthquake.

---

I did leave out other common known organizations. But these two are the most famous. Whether its for good or bad reasons.

And I dont think I have a have a strong viewpoint on it. I'll eat chicken in a heart beat. My main focus was for animals like that dog picture. I reread the PETA description and maybe I chose the wrong organization for the purpose of this topic.

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You're not very educated. This is very apparent when you make it known that you don't care exactly what the organizations are known for. Whether it be 'good or bad'.  

Hole dug. Thank you for proving my point here.

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Well, every organization has its flaws. Is PETA doing more harm or good? Show your edumacation.

Post edited at 9:51 am on Aug. 21, 2008 by Anonymous