Why Do Black People Not Tip? -- LiveWire Teen Forums

Quote: from Bud2400 at 11:41 pm on Aug. 22, 2008

I would also mention that wearing things like baggy pants, bandanas, etc. to an interview is also expressing it.

Its not expressing "blackness" though. I wear baggy pants all the time and lots of latinos wear bandanna. thats not blackness. wearing it to interview though is just stupid thinking.

But if ppl tell you "thats blackness" they just as wrong as ppl who look at somebody in a uniform and say thats nazi. I mean its about as far.

wearing that kinda stuff to an interview where you should wear something at least semi-professional says to me, and any other interviewer, that this individual is more interested in asserting his or her own identity

no it says that fuck is just clueless or wants to provoke you.

(which, in the case of blackness, would be asserting their identity as a black person)

Nope asserting your identity as black is wearing a good suit and a good tie and looking at you straight in the eye and shaking your hand firmly and expecting you to treat him with respect and calling him "sir" and thanking him politely. THATs REAL blackness. it says "Im black and Im proud and thats why I wear something that stupid racists cant even object to and if they find some fault then they showed their colors".

Theres more blackness in Sidney Poitier saying "They call me Mr Tipps" and slapping a white racist back in the face than some guy wearing a bandanna and baggy pants and trying to excuse why he wasn't hired before.

When i went to my interview as a stocker I wore my Easter sunday suit and I spoke the best english I could and I looked at the hiring guy straight out like he couldn't tell what race I am and that it DONT fucking matter. I looked at him like he was my equal by still being respectful but expect him to respect me even if i was just 15 and a 1/2. And I got the job over 20 other ppl.

It was a fucking little job as a stocker but getting the job MADE me proud of myself and what I could do.

If the black community were to, as a whole, reject such things more openly and endorse individual success and entrepreneulship (and as a result, sever the perceived unity among blacks),

They do.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/

http://www.tnj.com/

http://www.blackitprofessional.com/

However, this will never happen as it would be suicide for the black community to ever do such.

now you the one being pessimist and killing the stuff in the egg before you even give it a chance to hatch.

Find out first whats out there and encourage it instead of saying "oh it'll never work" just like the losers in my hood.

The black community requires unity above all else, thus it's not going to endorse anything which may threaten that unity.

yeah they can still be united. just united to do something good thats all. and unite themselves with others too. and the smart ones do that TOO.

Any criticism of black people is often met with accusations of racism

because a lot of it is USED by ppl like kidd rune and his pals as WEAPONS to ATTACK blacks. I notice that in this thread and other threads.

Thing about your suggestion is that it would seem to scream for affirmative action policies among pizza delivery drivers

One good thing can bring another good thing. If the result is good for everyone why cry about it?

I don't believe it should be encouraged or forced, but rather, chosen by them.

WEll sometimes you gotta give the idea out a bit better. I mean usually that stuff is word of mouth anyway. like one guy gets the job then tells his buddies. I mean a campaign to hire out drivers in the places where ppl have trouble finding jobs dont sound like a bad idea anyway.

There are, however, many things in it which disgusts me, and I think the main thing is the emphasis on the unity of blacks. I hate seeing blacks insult other blacks because they're acting "white," or being an "oreo," as if there's some proper way a black person should act (and it is through this that the idea of whites and blacks being inherently different, as well as self-segregation itself, is made).

yeah theres some problem with that. but think also this way. when white ppl live in africa they also try to "keep their seperate" identity also. They also try to keep apart. same with the british when they lived in india or china. They kept to themselves and kept their "culture" and tried not to mix with the majority.

The spanish had race problems too but they were more willing to mix with the ppl they colonized. thats why in Mexico and south america you dont see as much of seperation of race. they integrated with the native americans and blacks. and so the culture there still has some spanish of course but also other cultures. and now ppl use that against mexicans and hate us because they dont think us as white.

not every proponent of blackness may necessarily have to believe or go by it all, such things seems far more prevalent among blacks than anyone else.

thats the thing though. blackness is pretty broad.

I myself have immense trouble defining it, not because it doesn't exist, but because it's kind of a complicated concept as it's very inconsistent - what one defines as white and black varies, among both whites and blacks alike.

yeah exactly.

If you ever notice any "what's the difference between a black person and a nigger" thread, you'll notice that whatever is listed as a "nigger" trait is a negative attribute of blackness.

and when we talk of "white trash" we talk of the negative trait of whiteness...

(racism, ignorance, laziness etc...)

Eh, I can understand taking a minute maybe, but when I have to wait outside in the rain for 5 minutes when I have other deliveries running late, I get rather annoyed.

yeah Im sue. I mean i understand.

But one thing I do notice among blacks more than anyone else is that whenever I knock on their door, I always get a "WHO IS IT?" from them more than any other race, which always make me think "WTF, who do you think it is??"

sounds like culture habit to me.

If the black community really wanted to be reflected in a more positive light, they'd "disown" these guys and endorse attributes which are more positive and lean towards individual success, and indeed many individuals do try, but as a collective whole, it doesn't seem to be very big or successful.

I got a few thoughts about that topic but I gotta go. Ill get back to you on that.

-------
"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

Quote: from jakelong at 12:37 am on Aug. 23, 2008

Its not expressing "blackness" though. I wear baggy pants all the time and lots of latinos wear bandanna. thats not blackness. wearing it to interview though is just stupid thinking.

And I agree with you. But this doesn't mean that the idiots who do this aren't doing it to assert their identity of who they are. Likely, it means other things, such as some perception of being "cool," which could also be mixed in with being black.

I'm not trying to make this argument simple by saying blackness = ignorance, and blah blah. It's far more complicated than that, though I'm at a loss of words for what's on my mind, so I will (and have been trying) to convey it to you as best as I can.

no it says that fuck is just clueless or wants to provoke you.

Perhaps it's partially out of cluelessness, but I doubt it's to provoke me (what would be the point of that?). I personally think it's more of an aversion to wearing more formal attire, and I can certainly understand that being a little weary of such things myself. I hypothesize that it's aversive to many black individuals more so than other races because they generally don't identify with themselves in a formal suit, and often times, men in business suits are often pictured to be white, as opposed to black, Latino, or any other race as it is in reality. Due to the aversion, if strong enough, they will come to the interview in their own everyday attire. I've seen this from more than just blacks, too, although I find the casual attire a fair number of young blacks wear to scream ghetto, for that's the current fad, which is generally much more unprofessional than the casual attire whites and other races wear.

We should bear in mind, though, that the vast majority of all blacks get over such silly things by keeping in mind that this is what you do, and indeed, sometimes it doesn't even occur to some. Either way, how one dresses doesn't reflect any sense of "blackness" unless they attempt to make it reflect that. And that's really the whole point of clothes - to signal what sort of group or individual you are. Your identity. So it also can't necessarily be ruled out.

Nope asserting your identity as black is wearing a good suit and a good tie and looking at you straight in the eye and shaking your hand firmly and expecting you to treat him with respect and calling him "sir" and thanking him politely.

Then why aren't more blacks out there actually attempting this? After all, if that's what's in for blacks to do, then why is it that many don't? Just going out and talking to the blacks I meet around me, I can see that this ideal isn't very spot on. Getting money and respect certainly is, but it certainly doesn't appear to be through such methods.

You're beginning to make the fallacy of creating a rule on the example of a few, and while it's an attempt for the positive, hopeless optimism isn't what I care to hear.

THATs REAL blackness. it says "Im black and Im proud and thats why I wear something that stupid racists cant even object to and if they find some fault then they showed their colors".

Rather, you're defining blackness based on what you think is good in a black person. What blackness is isn't what you want it to be. It's the collective and shared set of values and ideals by blacks, and it goes a great deal into defining who is actually "black" and who is "not," despite being a part of the same race. This is key.

They do.
http://www.blackenterprise.com/
http://www.tnj.com/
http://www.blackitprofessional.com/

But do enough do to make such popular stereotypes among blacks unpopular amongst a fair number of black individuals themselves? Do they actually call for racial integration? And most importantly, do they still define these black thugs as "black"?

While whites will still define white thugs as "white," you must keep in mind what these definitions entail. As a whole, you'll notice that blacks and whites generally define what a race is differently. Go check out anywhere in this forum where a white person talks about what a race constitutes. They'll generally simply refer to one's color of skin, heritage, etc. and no more, no less. There's no set of values that makes one "white."

Now go see what a black person has to say. In general, you'll find blacks believe that there is more to a race than just the way one looks and one's heritage. They'll generally define it as also being "true" (and that'll vary among many blacks themselves) to their heritage. With this comes a set of general values amongst blacks, which many will accept, and many will reject. Not every value will be displayed by every black person, mind you, but it all serves to create a very different feel among blacks than any other race. And if anyone so dares to deviate from this too greatly, they are quite literally casted off as an "oreo," and if they'd try to claim that they're black, many others will simply tell them that they're the white man's sucka, an oreo, or something along those lines.

As a result, when a white person commits a crime, it's only representative of that individual and wherever that individual's beliefs comes from, whereas when a black person does the same, it means something entirely different for this reason. Other blacks may say he's a fool, but they don't disassociate themselves from them by saying that he's not "black," when this definition generally comes with so many values associated with it.

Also as a result, "whiteness" is the broadest context simply does not exist on a wide scale. You'll find it among more race conscious white nationalist communities, but beyond there, values are generally not associated with races as far as whites are concerned.

yeah they can still be united. just united to do something good thats all. and unite themselves with others too. and the smart ones do that TOO.

Unfortunately, strong unity calls for a dire circumstance that binds a group of people together as a result. Now that legal discrimination is out the window, in order for blacks to remain united, they must perceive racism against them from society at large. It's easy to do given the way much of society dislikes the way many black youths conform to idiotic stereotypes against black people to assert their black identity, as well as the fact that blacks as a whole are poorer than most other races.

So long as the idea that the suffering blacks have endured cannot be compared to the suffering homosexuals, Latinos, Asians, or even whites have endured prevails, the unity will remain. The day it dies and many blacks drop the idea that with a race comes a set of values, the unity will die as many blacks will begin viewing the era of today as different from the past where the same ties with other blacks no longer apply as a result, and begin to see other blacks more as individuals. Individuality necessarily leads to a lack of unity for the very nature of it. I've explained this to you before, I'm pretty sure.

WEll sometimes you gotta give the idea out a bit better. I mean usually that stuff is word of mouth anyway. like one guy gets the job then tells his buddies. I mean a campaign to hire out drivers in the places where ppl have trouble finding jobs dont sound like a bad idea anyway.

I believe in advertising such jobs in areas of a predominantly black population, but I don't believe in giving black applicants more of a priority than anyone else.

But at the same time, perhaps it could help. Although getting a job as a pizza delivery driver really isn't difficult so long as you're 18, have a car, and have a decent driving record. The main concern is just getting blacks to apply more than anything else. I'd doubt affirmative action would even be needed to correct any balances.

yeah theres some problem with that. but think also this way. when white ppl live in africa they also try to "keep their seperate" identity also. They also try to keep apart. same with the british when they lived in india or china. They kept to themselves and kept their "culture" and tried not to mix with the majority.

And you are indeed correct. The idea of being a minority under pressure has a tendency to bind the individuals of that minority together and identify with each other more due to sharing the same problems. When you're the majority and have stable control of power, such things don't occur to you, and as a result, treating others individually makes sense.

The spanish had race problems too but they were more willing to mix with the ppl they colonized. thats why in Mexico and south america you dont see as much of seperation of race. they integrated with the native americans and blacks. and so the culture there still has some spanish of course but also other cultures. and now ppl use that against mexicans and hate us because they dont think us as white.

It really depends on the Spanish country we're speaking of, but in Mexico, that's correct. In the more tropical regions, less Europeans colonized the area, making the people there look more native / black than those of Mexico. And then you look at Peru where very little intermixing occurred and the whites there are as white as the whites in the US and the natives are still "pure" (a big reason why Quechua is the most widely spoken Native American language today).

But in general, given the large mestizo populations with integration, you see a more unified Latin American culture than you do among the different, somewhat self-segregated races in the US today. Although there are exceptions - Peru is a very interesting country to look into regarding its racial demographics and culture.

thats the thing though. blackness is pretty broad.

And that's essentially our main problem. But what blackness really is doesn't matter a whole lot to our original discussion. What we were originally discussing is whether blacks self-segregate more than the other races and if that may contribute to their collective dramatically different tipping habits. I'd argue that the fact that any idea of blackness (ie. a shared set of values) exists will naturally cause some self-segregation for it will lead those who are black to identify more with others who are black as opposed to those who are not. If extreme enough, it can encourage racially homogeneous groups.

and when we talk of "white trash" we talk of the negative trait of whiteness... (racism, ignorance, laziness etc...)

But it does not apply in a similar way despite the same situation but reversed. As whites do not generally define races with a shared set of values, while blacks generally do, such analogies don't work.

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