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Quote: from Praise the Lard at 11:28 pm on July 4, 2008

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this is like saying that you don't mind black people acting like people but you secretly believe them to be monkeys

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A perfectly fine belief to hold.

Nobody should be allowed to mandate the thoughts of another.

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let me introduce you to the concepts of "right" and "wrong"

Post edited at 11:40 pm on July 4, 2008 by SovSull

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Quote: from Praise the Lard at 11:28 pm on July 4, 2008

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this is like saying that you don't mind black people acting like people but you secretly believe them to be monkeys

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A perfectly fine belief to hold.

Nobody should be allowed to mandate the thoughts of another.

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sure. i'm just trying to point out how it's just fear of difference not a reasonable belief

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I must say you hold a good point, you have a right to state you opinion, as long as you do it respectfully.

But I must disagree, it's been proven to be a genetic thing. And no I didn't choose to be gay, I've been like this since I was little, back then I didn't even know what that stuff was.

But I knew that I felt differently towards guys and girls.

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Quote: from Elm at 11:25 pm on July 4, 2008

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The only rational way to believe that sexuality is a choice is if one has choice over their own sexuality.  I am straight - I never decided to be attracted to the opposite sex - it simply is the way I am something I discovered as my hormones raged through me.  I have no reason to believe that it is different for anyone else because it is this way for me.  Thus the original poster must be attracted to the same sex and the opposite sex thus for them it is a choice for which attraction they act on - it is the only case in which the OP's opinion that is a choice could survive even the most rudimentary self-scrutiny.  

 Is this the case OP?

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Ha ha ha,
Life is a series of choices. A series questions and such. I have realized it. You can make your life hard or easier. Your choice in sexuality is yours. Mine? I never questioned my choice in sexuality, simply because it is obvious that I don't want to be discriminated.

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I'll point out that you never answered the question.

Life is mostly a series of choices.  I didn't choose to have blue eyes and brown hair, be 6 foot tall or have allergies - these were all determined for me by genetics and environment.

Thus I submit that the only way you could logically conclude that sexuality is a choice for others is because for you it is a choice.

Is it a choice for you or is it not?  I understand this is a difficult question for you for either you admit something you obviously feel you cannot admit to yourself or you are forced to acknowledge a powerful contradiction in your own thought process.  However answering hard questions is the only way for us to better ourselves.

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Quote: from Elm at 11:25 pm on July 4, 2008

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The only rational way to believe that sexuality is a choice is if one has choice over their own sexuality.  I am straight - I never decided to be attracted to the opposite sex - it simply is the way I am something I discovered as my hormones raged through me.  I have no reason to believe that it is different for anyone else because it is this way for me.  Thus the original poster must be attracted to the same sex and the opposite sex thus for them it is a choice for which attraction they act on - it is the only case in which the OP's opinion that is a choice could survive even the most rudimentary self-scrutiny.  

 Is this the case OP?

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Ha ha ha,
Life is a series of choices. A series questions and such. I have realized it. You can make your life hard or easier. Your choice in sexuality is yours. Mine? I never questioned my choice in sexuality, simply because it is obvious that I don't want to be discriminated.

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sure. i'm just trying to point out how it's just fear of difference not a reasonable belief

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Quote: from SovSull at 11:30 pm on July 4, 2008

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let me introduce you to the concepts of "right" and "wrong"

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Why thank you, I've always wanted to know just what these imaginary constructs are.

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Hey Lotus, to be totally honest I agree with you, but for two primary different views.
A) There are those who would want their weddings sanctioned by Catholicism and other religions that specifically prohibit homosexuality. You can be gay, but that's like telling a fire department to let people set the station on fire.

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Any church can refuse to marry two people for any reason. I've known several straight couples to be turned down my several churches.

The thing is, church and government are separate. That is no reason for gay marriage to be illegal. People can still be married by a JP and churches can do whatever they want.

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I just want to say one thing before I log off. None of you can change my opinions, and whatever you say, you are just a bunch of words on a computer monitor, I will never really take you seriously. I wanted to point out how aggressive you guys are and just because I don't agree with a group of people's ideals, I would be put down, I would be attacked like a bunch of rabid dogs would.  
It shows the GLBT believe, either accept us, or eat shit. But it doesn't matter, I am living a happy heterosexual life. I am not ashamed of my views, that is why I wasn't anonymous. But anyway, toodles.

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I see.  Retreat because you can't answer a simple question.  Use a defense mechanism to see yourself as a victim instead of the one being evasive.  Resolve to disempower those you view as attackers by dismissing them (words on a screen when you know they are written by people).

Typical human response when a defense mechanism is revealed and the ego threatened.

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I agree with ONE thing that you said. Homosexual lust isn't the same as heterosexual love. Homosexual LOVE and heterosexual love are no different though. Any two people who believe they are in love should have the right to marry. And if they are financially and emotionally fit and want children they should be able to adopt. They can provide children with a loving and accepting home. And trust me, it's  not a choice and a lot of people have a hard time accepting themselves. I know I did. I hid it for years. Homosexuals are not that way because of social rebellion and especially not to fit in. It's so much harder to try to fit when you're gay.

I try not to let anything that people like you say get to me or anything, but seriously you have no idea how bad you can hurt people by saying things like that. Can you imagine living in a world where people didn't accept you because you were straight? A world where you felt like you had to hide who you really are? Can you imagine hating yourself because you just want to be normal, but you just couldn't, all because of the gender that you happen to have feelings for? Can you imagine being picked on for being straight, told that you're doing it to get attention, or knowing that you will never be allowed to marry the one that you love? Can you imagine people not wanting to talk to you and telling you that you're disgusting, have a mental disorder, and are unnatural just because you have feelings for guys?

You can't even begin to fathom anything that homosexuals have to deal with every single day. You're just ignorant and close minded. I wish there was some way for me to make people like you see, just for a little bit how it feels to be unaccepted that way.

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I wholeheartedly agree dear!

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Watch me make up my mind instead of my face.

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Quote: from TheLastMagister at 2:24 am on July 5, 2008

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Hey Lotus, to be totally honest I agree with you, but for two primary different views.  
 A) There are those who would want their weddings sanctioned by Catholicism and other religions that specifically prohibit homosexuality. You can be gay, but that's like telling a fire department to let people set the station on fire.  
 

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Any church can refuse to marry two people for any reason. I've known several straight couples to be turned down my several churches.  

The thing is, church and government are separate. That is no reason for gay marriage to be illegal. People can still be married by a JP and churches can do whatever they want.

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When government and religion are joined the combination does a terrible disservice to the ideals of both organizations and moreso to the people they supposedly represent.

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Quote: from PinkLotus at 11:31 pm on July 4, 2008

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I just want to say one thing before I log off. None of you can change my opinions, and whatever you say, you are just a bunch of words on a computer monitor, I will never really take you seriously. I wanted to point out how aggressive you guys are and just because I don't agree with a group of people's ideals, I would be put down, I would be attacked like a bunch of rabid dogs would.
 It shows the GLBT believe, either accept us, or eat shit. But it doesn't matter, I am living a happy heterosexual life. I am not ashamed of my views, that is why I wasn't anonymous. But anyway, toodles.

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I see. Retreat because you can't answer a simple question. Use a defense mechanism to see yourself as a victim instead of the one being evasive. Resolve to disempower those you view as attackers by dismissing them (words on a screen when you know they are written by people).

Typical human response when a defense mechanism is revealed and the ego threatened.

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Elm, I have never ever been attracted to another female. I am logging off because it is 11:37 p.m. and I have to go to work by 6:00 a.m.
Is that alright with you?

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Quote: from Praise the Lard at 11:30 pm on July 4, 2008

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sure. i'm just trying to point out how it's just fear of difference not a reasonable belief

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 What is reasonable is subjective to the viewer. The point of this rant was not that she believed herself to be right, or justified, but merely that people were assaulting her for her beliefs (which, like it or not, is the same as bashing someone for their religion or what have you).  

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yes i know it's subjective that's why they're called views and opinions
i have views and opinions as well. one of them is to try to convince homophobes that they are being bass ackwards in their thinking and generally retarded
thanks for clearing up the op for me i definitely wasn't able to understand it from my pisspoor reading abilities

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prej·u·dice
2 a (1): preconceived judgment or opinion (2)

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You're being prejudicial.

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Educators destroy your brain,
but you don't know, so why care?
Fagotto

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Quote: from TheAntiBarbie at 2:29 am on July 5, 2008

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I agree with ONE thing that you said. Homosexual lust isn't the same as heterosexual love. Homosexual LOVE and heterosexual love are no different though. Any two people who believe they are in love should have the right to marry. And if they are financially and emotionally fit and want children they should be able to adopt. They can provide children with a loving and accepting home. And trust me, it's  not a choice and a lot of people have a hard time accepting themselves. I know I did. I hid it for years. Homosexuals are not that way because of social rebellion and especially not to fit in. It's so much harder to try to fit when you're gay.    

 I try not to let anything that people like you say get to me or anything, but seriously you have no idea how bad you can hurt people by saying things like that. Can you imagine living in a world where people didn't accept you because you were straight? A world where you felt like you had to hide who you really are? Can you imagine hating yourself because you just want to be normal, but you just couldn't, all because of the gender that you happen to have feelings for? Can you imagine being picked on for being straight, told that you're doing it to get attention, or knowing that you will never be allowed to marry the one that you love? Can you imagine people not wanting to talk to you and telling you that you're disgusting, have a mental disorder, and are unnatural just because you have feelings for guys?  

 You can't even begin to fathom anything that homosexuals have to deal with every single day. You're just ignorant and close minded. I wish there was some way for me to make people like you see, just for a little bit how it feels to be unaccepted that way.

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I wholeheartedly agree dear!

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It depends entirely on how one defines normal.

If they define normal as undertaken by the majority homosexuality is not normal.  However if it is defined as something well within known differentials then it certainly is normal.  Green cars aren't "normal" as there is no car color that is 51% of more of cars however seeing a car is well within expected results so it is normal in that sense.