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Persecuting an atheist? I thought it was a Jew thing...   |
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 Replies: 56 — Last Post July 15, 2008 10:28am by Guardian
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| Choice |
Votes |
Percent |
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| Just avoid it |
11 |
25% |
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| Convince her |
1 |
2% |
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| Some other option (please elaborate) |
7 |
15% |
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| A vague mix of both |
10 |
22% |
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| 1/4 |
15 |
34% |
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| Vote Now! |
44 Votes Cast |
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Soren Kierkegaard
Wealthy Hobo
 Patron
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Quote: from Guardian at 7:18 am on July 11, 2008
 I don't care what your child does, you NEVER lose your cool and tell them things like that. I know what I said was stupid, and that even though it was a joke it was insulting, but she (as an adult) should have handled it better. Resorting to saying petty hurtful things like "I have no respect for you," and "You're disgusting," are childish, and a textbook example of bad parenting.
And using jokes to belittle religious affiliations of your parents is a result of absolutely poor tact and being extremely naive to not expect consequences thereafter. "I was joking! Why did she react the way she did? That was mean and childish of her!" You could have just as easily not said the joke, which would have avoided the situation beforehand? That way she wouldn't have been offended to the point where she would have said those thoughts and you'd continue to be an atheist to your little heart's content. You said it, therefore, should be willing to expect any consequences that happen as a result.
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What are your Top 10 Favorite Movies?
Goofy rocks my face off!
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Soren Kierkegaard
Wealthy Hobo
Patron
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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 5:32 am on July 11, 2008
Quote: from Guardian at 3:39 am on July 11, 2008
Quote: from Soren Kierkegaard at 11:35 pm on July 10, 2008
Quote: from Guardian at 11:19 pm on July 10, 2008
Quote: from Soren Kierkegaard at 9:33 am on July 10, 2008
Quote: from Baron Samedi at 9:57 pm on July 9, 2008
Just avoid it. Anything else is an exercise in maddening the already pointless.
However, even in jest, there is an ideal referred to as tact that he either knows absolutely nothing about, or he knowingly caused the stir by belittling his mother's belief system beforehand? I have yet to see how this ties in with an atheist being persecuted. All I've read is an atheist being cheeky, then not quite understanding when his mother doesn't return the joke by belittling her own faith with him. Instead, she rightfully takes it as a personal attack, which in an essence that's both what you believe and stated yourself, and returned the favor by stating how generally disgusted she was with you afterward. You deserved it.
It was a joke, and not something to be taken seriously. Even if I was being serious, she doesn't have the right to tell me I disgust her and that she has no respect for me. This has nothing to do with tact. Later she told me she never wanted to hear me say I was an atheist again (which is what bugged her in the first place). I am usually very accepting of others beliefs, religious or otherwise. However, I do slip up in jest occasionally. I wouldn't say I deserved it.
If you stated it specifically the way you brought it up over the forum, you deserved specifically what she told you afterward. She has no control over what you personally believe, but once you decide to flaunt your atheistic notions to your knowingly theistic mother in a condescending manner regardless of intention, you deserve repercussions.
...Please sir, never have children.
Actually, I daresay he's more fit to be a father than you; he understands that being a jerk results in consequences, while you seem to think that everyone should bow down to your assholeishness without question.
He apparently thinks that stating after purposefully condescending and insulting thoughts can be toned down by saying, "Just kidding." Once again, he knows close to zero tact or doesn't quite grasp the manner of consequences when living under someone else's house? As for my potential to be a father, myself, I understand the importance of theology overall. In fact, I'd be more than happy to debate with my future children over absolutely everything they could think in order for question and analyze their individual faith system. Your comment had absolutely nothing to do with apologetics or Theology besides knowingly and purposefully belittling Christianity in front of your parent. There's a time and a place for everything, and being childish enough to the point where you do not expect consequences to be result of your actions is not only asinine, but unfortunately, ignorant.
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What are your Top 10 Favorite Movies?
Goofy rocks my face off!
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King kong
Ghostbuster
Patron
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Quote: from Guardian at 4:53 pm on July 11, 2008
I understand how you would think that from just what I mentioned in this topic. I know my joke was distasteful, and was justified (in her mind)although she did take it too far(in my opinion). I have never tried to repress her religion (unless you consider this one joke, which was more like an awkward attempt to express my non-belief), but she constantly tries to repress mine, unless I am agreeing with her. I can't even say the word atheist without her exploding and leaving the area. I am being persecuted, and it's not justified. I honestly didn't expect this topic to be anything more than a joke, so I didn't give much history, which was a stupid thing to do.
your joke offended her. yes it was. in her opiion sh may not have overracted you could have talked about it in a better way, othe than making a joke. an athist joke, which is insulting. expres it in someother way. you could say she cares about your soul. but I nelive if you had not made that joke, she would not have needed to do so
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Pandora didn't think outside the box
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TRUCUBANDYME305
Dairy Product Addict
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Just don't bring it up any more.
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Cowards die many times before their deaths, The
valiant never taste of death but once. -Julius Caesar
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AloneAngel
Professional
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Just give her some time to get used to it!
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exceedinglyrare
Delicate Thing
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Quote: from Guardian at 10:18 am on July 11, 2008
I don't care what your child does, you NEVER lose your cool and tell them things like that. I know what I said was stupid, and that even though it was a joke it was insulting, but she (as an adult) should have handled it better. Resorting to saying petty hurtful things like "I have no respect for you," and "You're disgusting," are childish, and a textbook example of bad parenting.
Why not? You were being entirely disrespectful and disgusting; she had every right to say that she did not respect you and was disgusted with you in that moment. Perhaps she could've handled it better, but she is the adult and you are the child. If you want to be treated with respect and not insulted, treat your mother with respect and don't insult the things she holds dear. You are not a victim of persecution here, kid. Furthermore, let's look up what persecution actually is, just so you get an idea:
per·se·cute Audio Help /ˈpɜrsɪˌkyut/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pur-si-kyoot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-verb (used with object), -cut·ed, -cut·ing. 1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.
Do you see anything in there saying, "to be called out on being an asshole?" Didn't think so. Grow the fuck up and get over yourself, or else go talk to people who are actually persecuted for their beliefs.
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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after
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( Guardian )
Connoisseur
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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:51 pm on July 11, 2008
Quote: from Guardian at 10:18 am on July 11, 2008
I don't care what your child does, you NEVER lose your cool and tell them things like that. I know what I said was stupid, and that even though it was a joke it was insulting, but she (as an adult) should have handled it better. Resorting to saying petty hurtful things like "I have no respect for you," and "You're disgusting," are childish, and a textbook example of bad parenting.
Why not? You were being entirely disrespectful and disgusting; she had every right to say that she did not respect you and was disgusted with you in that moment. Perhaps she could've handled it better, but she is the adult and you are the child. If you want to be treated with respect and not insulted, treat your mother with respect and don't insult the things she holds dear. You are not a victim of persecution here, kid. Furthermore, let's look up what persecution actually is, just so you get an idea:
per·se·cute Audio Help /ˈpɜrsɪˌkyut/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pur-si-kyoot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-verb (used with object), -cut·ed, -cut·ing. 1. to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently.
2. to annoy or trouble persistently.
Do you see anything in there saying, "to be called out on being an asshole?" Didn't think so. Grow the fuck up and get over yourself, or else go talk to people who are actually persecuted for their beliefs.
Then we have different ideas of how parents should behave. Obviously they both work, and we're not going to change our beliefs, so that part can be put aside as 'unchangeable difference of opinion.'
If you read my last post you'll see that this has been going on for awhile, and in fact fits the definition of persecution perfectly. Also, let's not insult each others intelligence here, we're obviously not stupid enough to not know simple vocab terms like 'persecution' and 'tact.' and although I'm sure you feel like a badass when you copy and paste the definition, save both yourself and me the time and don't. It really pisses me off when people say things like that. Obviously there are people who have been more persecuted than me, and I understand that. That doesn't make me being persecuted right. Just because someone has it worse off than you doesn't mean your problem is unimportant and/or nonexistent. It doesn't mean you don't have the right to seek out a solution to that problem or vent about it through a teen support forum. I'd hate to live in your world, where conversations could go like this: "My dad molests me," "Hey kid, quit bitching and get over yourself, there was a man on the news who got molested by both parents, and his problems outweigh yours, so yours don't exist." " I feel like killing myself," "Psh, quit whining, the Jews were victims of mass exterminations. Your problems aren't anything like theirs, so grow up."
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I'm a boy and you're a girl, what else is there in the world?
I can make you smile I can make you laugh, what else is there in the world
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( Guardian )
Connoisseur
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Quote: from Soren Kierkegaard at 7:57 am on July 12, 2008
However, your mother's parenting style, or lack thereof, hadn't deterred you essentially making blatantly insulting statements to your mother over how much of a joke her personal beliefs were. In case you're wondering, this has absolutely nothing at all to do with tact on your part. Also, your situation would be a much different issue if it weren't due to you essentially having repercussions for your own words. If you were molested, abused besides your claiming to be scarred for your mother not respecting you any longer, or genuinely felt urges to commit suicide due to this act; that'd be incredibly different than what you're doing now. You're intentionally comparing apples and oranges in hopes of nobody noticing or caring otherwise, and you still deserved your consequences if you felt it necessary to say that to your mother.
I'm making a statement, (I'm being persecuted) and asking for advice on how to deal with it. Obviously, I'm not going to post a collection of all the times I have been, because it's not necessary. These 'repercussions' are verbal and emotional abuse (this example being very light in comparison). Last time I checked, that wasn't legal. I understand that in this example there is no abuse, I was just using a recent and slightly humorous example to seek advice from my peers. This is a support site, you know. (I can be condescending too  ) And for the love of GOD (ironic, I know) stop saying tact. It has nothing to do with anything, and isn't a complicated idea, so please stop trying to explain it for me (i.e, "in case you were wondering, this has nothing to do with tact") Just because I post something in Religion & Philosophy doesn't mean you're obligated to make a debate out of it by jumping to conclusions and generally splitting hairs. I understand you don't know the history, and I'm not going to explain it to you, because I don't need to. I sought advice for my problem, and got advice. No thanks to you.
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I'm a boy and you're a girl, what else is there in the world?
I can make you smile I can make you laugh, what else is there in the world
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Soren Kierkegaard
Wealthy Hobo
Patron
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You aren't being persecuted in either of the situations that you've mentioned, boy. You made a purposefully offensive joke at your mother's religious expense, and then you have to deal with consequences thereafter. If I am not mistaken, the title of your topic was about persecution only being comparable with the Jews? Your situation is comparable with thousands and thousands of years of never being considered a superpower nation continually ransacked by surrounding nations (Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, etc. etc.) from Settlement-Conquest-Kingship-Diaspora-Repatriation-Maccabees-Hellenism-Roman Expansion-Medieval-etc.? Sorry, but your minor situation of your Christian mother belittling your particular atheistic virtues, religious affairs, mindset, etc. is hardly comparable. When you first realized that you were losing the debate that your situation wasn't at all persecution, you decided to be melodramatic stating that you were suffering abuse comparable to molestation, incest, and verbal-emotional abuse happening in legitimate instances apart from your own. Again, hardly comparable if it stems from your own admission to originated after you chose to belittle your mother's religious belief. Simply whining that your mother doesn't respect you is not comparable with the various examples I was exposed to when I had to learn how to walk once more at TX Neuro Rehab Facility. I remember hearing one example of a 6-year-old girl that was tied to a children's car seat underneath the kitchen sink for just shy of a year without being let out. That is abuse. My mother being molested and raped by her Uncle, two male cousins and more importantly, her father, from age 8 through 10-years-old is considered sexual abuse. My mother holding me in one hand and a loaded pistol in the other when I was a 1-year-old threatening my father that she'd kill both me and herself if he'd ever leave. That is abuse. When I was in the 6th Grade, and my mother decided to hit herself in order to cause her adrenaline to rise, beat me against a wall while screaming derogatory phrases and finally stomping into me with her high heels while I cuddled into the floor? That is abuse. My list can go on and on about how much abuse I have heard, read, seen, or experienced first or second hand. None of which is at all comparable with your situation. You come across as a whining child unable to have the respect and love from your mother as you once had, because you wanted to be cute and belittle her over something that you knowingly would violate. You seem incapable of accepting any responsibility whatsoever for what you have done besides dismissing it as a mere joke while accusing your mother of overreacting. You're right. I don't know anything at all about your back story within this situation, nor have you made any attempt to mention it otherwise. Instead, you insulted any and all potential for me to be a caring, considerate, compassionate, and understanding father to any nonexistent children thus far to be in my life. You disgust me.
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What are your Top 10 Favorite Movies?
Goofy rocks my face off!
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( Guardian )
Connoisseur
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I'm sorry, but you're a fucking idiot. READ THE POST RIGHT. The title of the topic was merely about how Jews are often persecuted, whereas Atheist persecution is uncommon. You interpreted wrong. I never said I was suffering abuse comparable to molestation. Again, something you interpreted wrong. I was making examples of people whose problems are 'not severe' enough to care about being ignored. Not me. How the fuck do you mess that up? I'm not having a 'traumatic past' contest with you. Just because your problems are greater than mine, doesn't make mine moot. Grow the fuck up and look around. Peoples lives suck, but life isn't about 'topping' someone else's abuses. It's about helping people. You're seeing what you want to see in me. You don't know me, so it's funny how you knew my motivations behind saying what I did. "Trying to be cute and belittle her" Sometimes a joke is just a joke. The reason I said that is because I lost my patience with you. You assume and put words in my mouth. And if I may, you haven't tried to help with my situation once.
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I'm a boy and you're a girl, what else is there in the world?
I can make you smile I can make you laugh, what else is there in the world
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