---

Quote: from Moridin at 2:46 am on July 9, 2008

---

1. Space is not infinite.  
 2. We know that the laws of physics are universal and apply everywhere.

---

1. How do you know?  
2. How do you know?

---

1. Cosmological expansion
2. Symmetries

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

---

Quote: from Moridin at 5:18 am on July 9, 2008

---

You are simply arbitrarily erecting a magical zone where you put a god into to shield them from rational truth Please show why you are justified in this operation. The claim that a "god" exists "outside" logic presupposes logic, so such an argument does nothing more than to assert itself to be false. Furthermore, logic is not a spatial measurement, so nothing exists "inside" or "outside" of logic, since those terms are inapplicable in this instance.  

 If you show me that Santa doesn't really hand out presents to every child around the world in one day, am I then justified in claiming that Santa is outside logic, and that he can deliver presents even though you have conclusively shown that he has not? I think not.  

 You are just afraid of applying the same rational standard to gods as you probably to on astrology, new age and all other forms of blatant mythology.

---

This is why I think this is funny. It is as if you don't even understand the term "supernatural."

---

The term "supernatural" is completely void of content, since it cannot be defined. You could say that it is everything that is not natural, but that is a negative postulate and tells us nothing about what it means. If I say that X is not a banana, does that tell me anything about what X really is? No.

Again,

(1) Please justify the existence of your magical zone in which you attempt to avoid rational conclusions.
(2) Coherently define "supernatural".

Your just as mental as theists.

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

---

Quote: from Forever Angel at 1:04 am on July 10, 2008

---

Quote: from Moridin at 2:46 am on July 9, 2008

---

1. Space is not infinite.  
  2. We know that the laws of physics are universal and apply everywhere.

---

1. How do you know?  
 2. How do you know?

---

1. Cosmological expansion
2. Symmetries

---

---

Those are perfectly valid answers. That is, if you actually know anything about physicists. Look them up.

---

---

Quote: from Moridin at 6:49 am on July 10, 2008

---

Those are perfectly valid answers. That is, if you actually know anything about physicists. Look them up.

---

Another non-answer.

---

So you fail to grasp basic physics?

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

---

The singularity at the centre of a black hole is a strange and extreme place, where the energy density is apparently infinite and where the known laws of physics are almost certain to break down.

---

This quote sums it up nicely:
Quote: from Moridin at 2:47 am on July 9, 2008

---

So you cannot answer my question? I'll accept that as your concession.

---

Post edited at 5:50 am on July 10, 2008 by Forever Angel

-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Pectus Pectoris Memor

---

Quote: from BrokenBelief at 10:37 am on July 9, 2008

---

Not really, because it still leaves us with the same question that divine creation stems from: "where did it come from in the first place"?

---

Since it cannot be created, it must be eternal.

---

---

No, something can be both eternal and finite. Furthermore, your source is out-of-date. We now know that due to the Uncertainty Principle of quantum mechanics, singularities cannot exist, but are mere artifacts of our models. Basic physics. Basic.

---

And you should look up the meaning of eternal.

Post edited at 7:43 am on July 10, 2008 by Forever Angel

-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Pectus Pectoris Memor

Post edited at 7:59 am on July 10, 2008 by Praise the Lard

-------
Shoot to kill, aim to please
What good's a heart if it ain't on your sleeve?
Falling in love is a losing game
It's fun to play, but it ends the same

---

No, black holes exists, but not singularities. The uncertainty principle states that the product of the uncertainty in position and the uncertainty in momentum must always be larger than Planck's constant over 4 pi. This means that singularities, places where particles have zero uncertainty is impossible, since zero is less, not greater than Planck's constant over 4 pi.

---

And did you find the meaning of eternal yet? (Being without beginning or end)

-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Pectus Pectoris Memor

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=212112

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

---

1. I described the physical principles that shows that they are impossible.  

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=212112

---

And you still haven't shown that the laws of physics don't break down within a black hole.

Post edited at 8:36 am on July 10, 2008 by Forever Angel

-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Pectus Pectoris Memor