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Quote: from MixedDelight at 9:55 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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A child is generally born into the religion of their parents. The same way they are born into their parents' last name. If you think this is correct, then the childs' last name should also be "yet-to-be-determined"  

 No.

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A child isnt defined my its surname (unless the name is Hitler)

Religion defines how a child thinks!

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It's a question of culture. Are you going to ask a Sikh family to refrain from giving their child a turban until they reach 'an age of reckoning' That, is discrimination and a violation of a constitutional right.

But not that it matters, this would never work.

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Shhh, don't tell.

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religion is just an excuse for lack of reason

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I actually find church and dance to be the two most uplifting things in my life, and I used to be a complete atheist like you.

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I'm watching you.

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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What about children who label themselves? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

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what about the children who think theyre mature enough for sex? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

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...Wow, because those are obviously the exact same thing and have the same affect on people's lives.

A better analogy would be a kid's sexuality - whether they're straight or gay or whatever. But analogies only go so far, anyway.

Post edited at 2:02 pm on Nov. 17, 2008 by The Nowhere Man

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The clouds will part and the sky cracks open
And god himself which reach his f---ing arm through just to push you down

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What about children who label themselves? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

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I am saying that the children SHOULD be encouraged to label themselves.
How many people would tak a three year old who declares themself a catholic seriously? I wouldnt:  they have no idea about any of the actual concepts.
a 14 year old might have more of a grasp.

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dont wonder why im not smiling, wonder why you are.

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Quote: from sadnessness at 4:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from MixedDelight at 9:55 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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A child is generally born into the religion of their parents. The same way they are born into their parents' last name. If you think this is correct, then the childs' last name should also be "yet-to-be-determined"

  No.

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 A child isnt defined my its surname (unless the name is Hitler)  

 Religion defines how a child thinks!

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It's a question of culture. Are you going to ask a Sikh family to refrain from giving their child a turban until they reach 'an age of reckoning' That, is discrimination and a violation of a constitutional right.

But not that it matters, this would never work.

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When i said "Britain, USA and Western Europe, i meant the religions such as Christianity to be used as a trial first, anticipating the bigger impact it would have on such religions as Sikhs etc.
Of course this cant be implemented world wide- i'm sure in some cultures you would be killed for not following the family religion so i am in no way proposing a blanket ban or law, just for the idea to be circulated and some parents to think about it.

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dont wonder why im not smiling, wonder why you are.

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 1:58 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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What about children who label themselves? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

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what about the children who think theyre mature enough for sex? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

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...Wow, because those are obviously the exact same thing and have the same affect on people's lives.  

A better analogy would be a kid's sexuality - whether they're straight or gay or whatever. But analogies only go so far, anyway.

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yea religion affects lives waay more than sexuality does

and i dont think what kind matters because its really all the same (gay\straight etc)

Post edited at 2:05 pm on Nov. 17, 2008 by justin1990rm

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Quote: from The Nowhere Man at 2:01 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 1:58 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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What about children who label themselves? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

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what about the children who think theyre mature enough for sex? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

---

...Wow, because those are obviously the exact same thing and have the same affect on people's lives.

A better analogy would be a kid's sexuality - whether they're straight or gay or whatever. But analogies only go so far, anyway.

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yea religion affects lives waay more than sexuality does

and i dont think what kind matters because its really all the same (gay\straight etc)

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Yes, it does affect it more than sexuality. I was addressing your point comparing it to having sex. Having sex underage would affect you more than declaring yourself to be a Christian.

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The clouds will part and the sky cracks open
And god himself which reach his f---ing arm through just to push you down

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Quote: from MixedDelight at 9:58 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from sadnessness at 4:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from MixedDelight at 9:55 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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A child is generally born into the religion of their parents. The same way they are born into their parents' last name. If you think this is correct, then the childs' last name should also be "yet-to-be-determined"

 No.

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A child isnt defined my its surname (unless the name is Hitler)    

Religion defines how a child thinks!

---

It's a question of culture. Are you going to ask a Sikh family to refrain from giving their child a turban until they reach 'an age of reckoning' That, is discrimination and a violation of a constitutional right.

But not that it matters, this would never work.

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When i said "Britain, USA and Western Europe, i meant the religions such as Christianity to be used as a trial first, anticipating the bigger impact it would have on such religions as Sikhs etc.  
Of course this cant be implemented world wide- i'm sure in some cultures you would be killed for not following the family religion so i am in no way proposing a blanket ban or law, just for the idea to be circulated and some parents to think about it.

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edit: Nevermind, didn't see the part about this being an idea rather than a law.

Post edited at 2:09 pm on Nov. 17, 2008 by The Nowhere Man

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The clouds will part and the sky cracks open
And god himself which reach his f---ing arm through just to push you down

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 2:04 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from The Nowhere Man at 2:01 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 1:58 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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What about children who label themselves? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

---

     

 what about the children who think theyre mature enough for sex? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

---

   

 ...Wow, because those are obviously the exact same thing and have the same affect on people's lives.    

 A better analogy would be a kid's sexuality - whether they're straight or gay or whatever. But analogies only go so far, anyway.

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 yea religion affects lives waay more than sexuality does  

 and i dont think what kind matters because its really all the same (gay\straight etc)

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Yes, it does affect it more than sexuality. I was addressing your point comparing it to having sex. Having sex underage would affect you more than declaring yourself to be a Christian.

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Quote: from The Nowhere Man at 2:07 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 2:04 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from The Nowhere Man at 2:01 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 1:58 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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What about children who label themselves? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

---

  what about the children who think theyre mature enough for sex? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

---

  ...Wow, because those are obviously the exact same thing and have the same affect on people's lives.

  A better analogy would be a kid's sexuality - whether they're straight or gay or whatever. But analogies only go so far, anyway.

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  yea religion affects lives waay more than sexuality does

  and i dont think what kind matters because its really all the same (gay\straight etc)

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 Yes, it does affect it more than sexuality. I was addressing your point comparing it to having sex. Having sex underage would affect you more than declaring yourself to be a Christian.

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maybe in the short term, but both have life long consequences

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I'm not denying that. But you seem to be saying that they both have the same equivalent effect (obviously they wouldn't have exactly the same effect), which I disagree with.

-------
The clouds will part and the sky cracks open
And god himself which reach his f---ing arm through just to push you down

Children should not be forced if they don't believe in something. But don't underestimate children and think they are not capable of rational thinking.

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la rage au coeur

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what about the children who think theyre mature enough for sex? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

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Different matter entirely; there are laws against children having sex.

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I am saying that the children SHOULD be encouraged to label themselves.
How many people would tak a three year old who declares themself a catholic seriously? I wouldnt:  they have no idea about any of the actual concepts.
a 14 year old might have more of a grasp.

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Sure, but who are you to stop a child from saying what he is based on what he understands of it?

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 2:16 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from The Nowhere Man at 2:07 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 2:04 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from The Nowhere Man at 2:01 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from justin1990rm at 1:58 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:56 pm on Nov. 17, 2008

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What about children who label themselves? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

---

       

  what about the children who think theyre mature enough for sex? Are they to be told, "No you're not actually that, honey; you're not old enough yet"?

---

     

  ...Wow, because those are obviously the exact same thing and have the same affect on people's lives.      

  A better analogy would be a kid's sexuality - whether they're straight or gay or whatever. But analogies only go so far, anyway.

---

   

  yea religion affects lives waay more than sexuality does    

  and i dont think what kind matters because its really all the same (gay\straight etc)

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  Yes, it does affect it more than sexuality. I was addressing your point comparing it to having sex. Having sex underage would affect you more than declaring yourself to be a Christian.

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 maybe in the short term, but both have life long consequences

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I'm not denying that. But you seem to be saying that they both have the same equivalent effect (obviously they wouldn't have exactly the same effect), which I disagree with.

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To be honest, being raised in an oppressive Catholic household has affected me much more than any sexual experiences I had as a child.

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Kiara Liz 

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To be honest, being raised in an oppressive Catholic household has affected me much more than any sexual experiences I had as a child.

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In your case, aren't the two rather intertwined? Your sexuality and the oppressiveness of your household, I mean.

In any case, I'd point to that and say that it's more the oppressive nature than the religion that's the problem, as I know plenty of Catholic households that wouldn't necessarily agree with people's life choices, but wouldn't oppress them, either.

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Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after