Post edited at 9:55 pm on Nov. 16, 2008 by osmoticdespair

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Sacrificium Deo spiritus contribulatus
cor contritum et humiliatum Deus non spernet

Logic also barely scrapes the surface of human understanding. We can learn much more about ourselves and our immediate surrounds through the spiritual/emotional than through the logical.

Post edited at 10:01 pm on Nov. 16, 2008 by bigdutchman

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"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he w
ill sit on a boat drinking beer all day."

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Logic can obtain the scientific truth as we perceive it.

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Logic can be linked with truth, but they are mutually exclusive terms.

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Do not abandon yourselves to despair.
We are the Easter people and hallelujah is our song.

Pope John Paul II

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Quote: from bigdutchman at 6:00 am on Nov. 17, 2008

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Logic can obtain the scientific truth as we perceive it.  

 

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Alone? Surely not.

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The basis of science is observation and application. We let go of an apple, it drops to the ground. We assume something is pulling (or pushing, or something, doesn't really have any relevance to my point) on it.

Then again, we are only assuming we are seeing an apple falling. We assume things exist the way we see them We assume there is such a thing as reality, when in fact, there is absolutely no way to prove that what we see, feel, taste, hear, and smell is actually there, and that we are actually perceiving those things. We only assume.

Post edited at 10:07 pm on Nov. 16, 2008 by bigdutchman

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"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he w
ill sit on a boat drinking beer all day."

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 10:01 pm on Nov. 16, 2008

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Quote: from bigdutchman at 6:00 am on Nov. 17, 2008

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Logic can obtain the scientific truth as we perceive it.  

 

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Alone? Surely not.

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The basis of science is observation and application. We let go of an apple, it drops to the ground. We assume something is pulling on it.

Then again, we are only assuming we are seeing an apple falling. We assume things exist the way we see them We assume there is such a thing as reality, when in fact, there is absolutely no way to prove that what we see, feel, taste, hear, and smell is actually there, and that we are actually perceiving those things. We only assume.

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Quote: from bigdutchman at 6:06 am on Nov. 17, 2008

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 10:01 pm on Nov. 16, 2008

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Quote: from bigdutchman at 6:00 am on Nov. 17, 2008

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Logic can obtain the scientific truth as we perceive it.  

   

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Alone? Surely not.

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 The basis of science is observation and application. We let go of an apple, it drops to the ground. We assume something is pulling on it.  

 Then again, we are only assuming we are seeing an apple falling. We assume things exist the way we see them We assume there is such a thing as reality, when in fact, there is absolutely no way to prove that what we see, feel, taste, hear, and smell is actually there, and that we are actually perceiving those things. We only assume.

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I am talking about logic though. Observation is not an application of logic.

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Yes but without observation we cannot apply logic. If we have no facts, we can't "connect the dots." We need dots to connect.

And if those facts are not necessarily reliable, we don't even get to the logic step. Logic becomes irrelevant in seeking the truth, because we must first prove what we already assume.

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"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he w
ill sit on a boat drinking beer all day."

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So your statement that logic can obtain the scientific truth as we perceive it is incorrect.

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No.

The statement "logic can obtain scientific truth" is incorrect.

The "as we perceive it" part, is assuming that what we observe is correct. If what we observe is correct, then yes, logic could be used to find truth. However, I was not implying that what we perceive is correct.

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"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he w
ill sit on a boat drinking beer all day."

It is not necessary, nor alone sufficent.

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"I give the probability of this working at zero" - Dan DeMatteo