---

Quote: from NikkiInkz at 4:37 pm on Dec. 2, 2008

---

By eight weeks a baby can feel pain, the thalamus has started to function.

---

My medical textbook (Langman's Medical Embryology 10th Ed.) says otherwise. They can't feel shit before ~30 weeks.

The US Partial-Birth Abortion Ban is ridiculous and illogical. If abortions are going to happen who cares whether it occurs in vitro or during birth? It is legislation designed to play on emotion rather than science, something that anti-abortionists across the world are so effective at.

---

Everything is a play on emotions.  Using taxpayer's money to prevent starvation (or combat aids) in Africa is the biggest play on emotions for a particular policy that I can think of.

Your claim that because a baby can be aborted because it does not feel pain does not seem as logical to me as it might to yourself.  If we extend your argument that any person, born or unborn, which does not feel pain is therefore not living or allowed to be terminated, then couldn't we do the same thing for a lot of situations in life such as coma patients (who have the potential for recovery) or anyone who has lost their ability to feel pain for whatever reason?

---

Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 9:58 am on Dec. 2, 2008

---

Personally, I don't see the point of partial-birth abortions. Out of curiosity, does anyone know of any reasons why someone would choose to have a partial-birth abortion?

---

Most women who get it are advised by their doctors that either they will have medical complications later on. Partial birth abortion contributes to a higher survival rate.

---

She was probably talking about instances where the "mother" chooses to have an abortion as a form of birth control.

---

Everything is a play on emotions. Using taxpayer's money to prevent starvation (or combat aids) in Africa is the biggest play on emotions for a particular policy that I can think of.

---

Perhaps, but at least there is a difference between honest and dishonest emotive language.

---

Your claim that because a baby can be aborted because it does not feel pain does not seem as logical to me as it might to yourself. If we extend your argument that any person, born or unborn, which does not feel pain is therefore not living or allowed to be terminated, then couldn't we do the same thing for a lot of situations in life such as coma patients (who have the potential for recovery) or anyone who has lost their ability to feel pain for whatever reason?

---

I was merely pointing out that fetus' younger than ~30 weeks are unable to feel pain. That is all.

-------
Massive, epic adventure, multi-coloured, multi-layered.
Sort of two/three dimensional Wizard of Oz for the future.

---

I am taught that if the life of a pregnant woman (and therefore her fetus) is in danger then your priority is always the life of the woman, there are no exceptions.

I don't have any statistics to hand but I can't imagine why there should be any partial birth abortions for non-medical reasons. Generally women who have progressed that far into a pregnancy have made up their mind to keep it.

---

Well, if the discussion is whether it should be banned if its used only for medical reasons, then I would change my original statement; medical reasons are worth it. However, Im sure there are women who dont decide to until late, and have it for non-medical reasons, which is what I believe should be illegal.

---

Im sure there are women who dont decide to until late, and have it for non-medical reasons, which is what I believe should be illegal.

---

Do you think late-term (ie. "post-viable", perhaps from the 21st week onwards) should be banned? If so, why?

-------
Massive, epic adventure, multi-coloured, multi-layered.
Sort of two/three dimensional Wizard of Oz for the future.

---

Quote: from orange joy at 1:21 am on Dec. 3, 2008

---

Im sure there are women who dont decide to until late, and have it for non-medical reasons, which is what I believe should be illegal.

---

Do you think late-term (ie. "post-viable", perhaps from the 21st week onwards) should be banned? If so, why?

---

As I said in an earlier post; yes. If a the "fetus" can live outside of the womb, I consider it a child. Due to this, I dont think its right to abort any longer.

Like I said in my previous post, however, if it were done for medical reasons, it should still be legal.

---

Consciousness is created by brain connections between the thalamus and the cerebral cortex

---

---

Quote: from marshmellowman at 4:42 pm on Dec. 2, 2008

---

Consciousness is created by brain connections between the thalamus and the cerebral cortex

---

Huh?

---

---

Quote: from osmoticdespair at 11:51 am on Dec. 3, 2008

---

Quote: from marshmellowman at 4:42 pm on Dec. 2, 2008

---

Consciousness is created by brain connections between the thalamus and the cerebral cortex

---

Huh?

---

In order for a person to be conscious, that is aware of their own existence and surroundings and have sensational abilities, neurones need to be able to pass impulses from the thalamus to the cerebral cortex.

---

---

What don't you like about it, that it involves removing the fetus from the uterus as part of a surgical termination?

---

That, generally speaking, the fetus is entirely viable on its own (at least as much as it can be--of course, it can't really walk to the store and buy a bag of chips or change its own diaper, but you know what I mean)...I don't approve of abortion at all (though legislation, I think, is not the way to change things), but it's more that I can't understand real circumstances that would make a partial birth abortion necessary. Unless, of course, you're giving birth to a half-vampire mutant fetus that broke your spine. Then I say, kill the Mary Sue.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Unless, of course, you're giving birth to a half-vampire mutant fetus that broke your spine.

---

I love you.

---

That, generally speaking, the fetus is entirely viable on its own (at least as much as it can be--of course, it can't really walk to the store and buy a bag of chips or change its own diaper, but you know what I mean)...I don't approve of abortion at all (though legislation, I think, is not the way to change things), but it's more that I can't understand real circumstances that would make a partial birth abortion necessary. Unless, of course, you're giving birth to a half-vampire mutant fetus that broke your spine. Then I say, kill the Mary Sue.

---

It could be that it's been discovered that the foetus will not be viable and so a termination is opted for rather than waiting for a miscarriage or still-birth. It would be interesting to see how common that is compared to late-term terminations caused only by the parent's desire not to carry on with the pregnancy. To be late-term abortions are so rare I doubt there are available statistics.

-------
Massive, epic adventure, multi-coloured, multi-layered.
Sort of two/three dimensional Wizard of Oz for the future.

---

Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 3:29 pm on Dec. 3, 2008

---

That, generally speaking, the fetus is entirely viable on its own (at least as much as it can be--of course, it can't really walk to the store and buy a bag of chips or change its own diaper, but you know what I mean)...I don't approve of abortion at all (though legislation, I think, is not the way to change things), but it's more that I can't understand real circumstances that would make a partial birth abortion necessary. Unless, of course, you're giving birth to a half-vampire mutant fetus that broke your spine. Then I say, kill the Mary Sue.

---

It could be that it's been discovered that the foetus will not be viable and so a termination is opted for rather than waiting for a miscarriage or still-birth. It would be interesting to see how common that is compared to late-term terminations caused only by the parent's desire not to carry on with the pregnancy. To be late-term abortions are so rare I doubt there are available statistics.

---

I was wondering that myself. I can't imagine that partial-birth abortions are terribly common, or late term abortions, for that matter, but they would definitely be interesting statistics to see.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

What don't you like about it, that it involves removing the fetus from the uterus as part of a surgical termination?

---

I'm not against abortion, nor would I ever claim to be, I just don't like the idea of a fetus being so close to birth and then treated like that, let's face it a woman should have chosen by then to give the baby up.

It seems so inhumane and there should be other ways.

-------
Long Live The Car-Crash Hearts