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Is it really right to continue lying to kids about Santa Clause?  |
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 Replies: 111 — Last Post Dec. 23, 2008 11:24am by exceedinglyrare
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fenrir
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Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 8:32 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
 Quote: from fenrir at 6:30 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 8:25 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Quote: from fenrir at 6:23 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 8:07 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Quote: from fenrir at 4:42 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
First, when I made the comment "earning rewards" in relation to children, I wasn't mentioning a Theological mindset of "earning their way into Heaven" nor anything of the sort. I'd argue that if you have children work toward upholding what their parents teach and tell them for what is right [Within reason and overall spirit of morality and obedience of children] in relation to how parents reward their children for good behavior. Although I'd humbly accept any notion where I reward my children solely for the sake of them being my children, I'd want them to at the very least mind me in assumption that disobedience does, in fact, hold certain consequences that they'd dislike or be mindful of. Second, if you so chose to tell your children any number of fables as to instill a particular set of moral values, I'd say that you still haven't committed any falsehood besides adhering to your particular preference. You and I can argue the differences between upholding the curiousness of child-like wonder, but it'd merely go directly to one's personal philosophy for how to raise children. Third, I know that you are a proponent of premarital sex, as am I, but my girlfriend will argue tooth-and-nail for how and why premarital sex is not only wrong, but it destroys the religious implications of a positive and beneficial relationship. If you to debate with anyone who believed contrary to your particular adherence, is it not their personal right in order to disagree? People naturally and inevitably disagree over the matter of preference when compared with how we essentially view as morality, and yet, how a particular action might violate a person's conscience is not exhaustive when compared to preference. Not arguing that morality is relative, but one's authority in order to dictate what is acceptable generally hasn't anything to do besides one's ability to interpret for themselves. Finally, a child doesn't have the same reasoning potential as you and I, because their logic isn't necessarily refined in order to associate the precise logistics of breaking-and-entering, time manipulation, instantaneous [teleportation] travel, etc. besides their imagination in order to process. However, you have yet to fully write anything definitive that states it is morally unacceptable for one to believe in a mythical being that adheres to a purposefully GOOD outlook of morality.  
I did see the problems in that, but was put under the impression that we lived in a world in which magic could solve these problems.
Having you to be a spokesperson for morality is along the same lines of having a troll become a moderator.. Weren't you the one advocating killing elderly women and distributing their wealth if they knowingly committed unethical, but legal proceedings?
I didn't advocate killing anyone. The question was, could a man still be considered a good person if he killed a rich, dying woman who'd pawned a poor town's money and was planning to take her money to her grave, so that he could redistribute her wealth to the poor people she'd stolen from in starving eighteenth century Russia? Yes, he could still be considered a good person was my answer.
Which is entirely your right in choosing so, Bearsy, but opinions of morality aren't necessary exhaustive or definitive declarations for what is right besides mere preference. Preference cannot and shall not be a prerequisite for a moral act beyond one's ability to interpret for themselves whatever is direly necessary.
...I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say
Because you're too ignorant, I know. If you want, perhaps I could break out my box of crayons for you?
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"How incitful of you, dwarf. Though I can't speak for fenrir,
I beleive that he too has a certain degree of sarcasm
and humor in his posts." - Prince o palities
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6:39 pm on Dec. 15, 2008 | Joined: Dec. 2002 | Days Active: 403
Join to learn more about fenrir Texas, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 2,867 | Points: 6,023
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 LiveWire Humor
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( Bearsy )
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Quote: from Event Horizon at 6:35 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:16 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Quote: from Event Horizon at 6:10 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Bottom line:
If any kid resents his parents for lying about santa claus.
1) That child needs to rethink why he resents his parents. [Because they pretended that magic exists?] 2) That child needs to think about who actually was giving him all those presents. I cannot possibly imagine having felt resentment towards my parents for telling me that santa was the one giving me my presents, only to find out that it was them all along. Just because he doesn't exist doesn't mean he doesn't bring joy to kids.
I have always hated being lied to, it's as simple as that. Ever since I was a young kid. It's disturbing not knowing what information you can trust. My own damn parents- who I'd instinctively trusted- had been blatantly deceiving me my entire life.
It's SANTA CLAUS.
I can understand if your parents told you that it was them who was giving you the presents but then you found out that it was your neighbor, Bill.
Then I could see how you might feel betrayed --though, still, I have trouble seeing that.
But it is fucking Santa.
"Oh gosh, if they lied to me about that immortal obese guy who can distribute gifts to a billion people in one night --on his sled of flying reindeer-- by sliding down their respective chimneys; What else have they been lying to be about? My real father?" Come on now. The story is absurd to begin with. If anything you should feel resentment towards yourself for believing in it as long as you did. I know when I found out it was a sort of, "Yea, that makes sense" moment. did you get mad at your grandfather for pretending to pull off his thumb too? Or the magician that came to your elementary school lying to you about knowing what card you chose?
I wasn't stupid, but your idea of what the world is comes from the information you gather. If you grew up one of those really rural African tribes, you might be under the impression right now that if you give birth with your clit not torn off, it'll go up to your head and kill you. Or if you lived in China you might think that the Tibetans are barbarians and the Chinese police have never shot at them, and the American media is making it up to make China look bad. My parents were my main source of how the world worked and told me when things I saw on TV were implausible etc etc and I had to rely on that. They told me that magicians used illusions, that's how I knew they couldn't really do magic. Kids don't actually believe that magicians can perform real magic because their parents- the trustworthy source- tell them the truth. Post edited at 6:45 pm on Dec. 15, 2008 by Bearsy
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^use head phones
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( Bearsy )
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Fenrir, no ad hominems in this thread. This isn't a diss thread, it's an argument thread.
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click and please click
^use head phones
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Event Horizon
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Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:59 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Quote: from Event Horizon at 6:55 pm on Dec. 15, 2008
Well then I really don't know what to say to you...
I guess the story of Santa Claus is only suitable for children who can learn fantasy from reality. I mean...Really? Forgive me if I sound condescending, but I'm just blown away by this. The fact that someone could feel betrayed when finding out that Santa isn't real is just mind boggling. You just seem, like Fauna said, pedantic.
Ad hominem.
Um, nope. Ad hominem comes from Argumentum Ad Hominem Which means "Argument against the man" That is, an argument that attacks the speaker, not the point. Since what I said was not an argument at all, but rather a claim, there was no Ad hominem. I was simply claiming that, to me, it is unbelievable that someone could believe that they are justified in questioning the trust between them and their parents because Santa isn't real. Ludicrous even. I'm not saying it is wrong. I mean, if that is what happened, then that is what happened. You had no control over the resentment you'd feel, just as you have no control over what kind of person you become, or how you look. I just think it is silly.
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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome. --Isaac Asimov
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Fauna
and the radio says,
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Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 2:37 am on Dec. 16, 2008
Again, for the billionth time, there is a huge difference between story-telling and lying. Will you tell your kids that Santa is just a make-believe story, or will you lead them to believe that he's real?
I'm just going to tell them about him, the same way I'll tell them about the easter bunny, or fairies in the garden, or goblins, or the cat in the hat. I'm not going to frame this story-telling with a disclaimer of 'only joking, by the way'. if you want to call that 'lying' then, go ahead, I'll admit that I'm going to lie - I just don't see why that is bad.
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- لورين
Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.
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4:24 am on Dec. 16, 2008 | Joined: Jan. 2007 | Days Active: 748
Join to learn more about Fauna England, United Kingdom | Bisexual Female | Posts: 13,147 | Points: 31,468
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( Bearsy )
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Quote: from Fauna at 4:24 am on Dec. 16, 2008
Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 2:37 am on Dec. 16, 2008
Again, for the billionth time, there is a huge difference between story-telling and lying. Will you tell your kids that Santa is just a make-believe story, or will you lead them to believe that he's real?
I'm just going to tell them about him, the same way I'll tell them about the easter bunny, or fairies in the garden, or goblins, or the cat in the hat. I'm not going to frame this story-telling with a disclaimer of 'only joking, by the way'. if you want to call that 'lying' then, go ahead, I'll admit that I'm going to lie - I just don't see why that is bad.
Did you ever actually believe that the cat in the hat was real? You're still not acknowledging the difference between pretending and believing.
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click and please click
^use head phones
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