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( exceedinglyrare )
Delicate Thing
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So a discussion in the Books & Reading forum (hi, medjai) caused me to think about a question that tends to bother me when studying Shakespeare, the question of why so many English classes only focus on the tragedies and completely ignore the comedies and the histories? Well. Not completely ignore, as they generally get at least a mention in passing, or the teacher will rent A Midsummer Night's Dream or Much Ado About Nothing to play and introduce the unit, but at the same time, so much more attention is given to the tragedies than to the comedies or histories that I can't help but feel that many people are missing out on some absolutely wonderful stories and insights that come from those plays. Posing the question here because the Books & Reading forum tends to get bogged down with the camel dung that is Twilight, but why do you suppose it is that Shakespeare's tragedies are seen as far more important than the comedies or histories? Or, for that matter, his sonnets?
------- Let yourself be enchanted, You just might break through To ever ever after
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barnabas
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Well, to start off, his sonnets offend a lot of people, and seem far to risque for high school. Also, I think people percieve his tragedies as more straightforward than his comedies? That may sound strange, but bear with me, my brain is frazzled with paper writing. In high school we read 2 tragedies and a history. We read R&J, Henry the V (I think?) and then Hamlet. In college I read a lot of the others (to this day i have not finished reading all of his works ). But i think that high schools pick those plays because it is easy to talk about hamlet being depressed, ophelia drowning etc. Those emotions seem more straight forward than the taming of the shrew, or much ado about nothing, where shakespeare says one thing, and means another? did that make any sense?
------- Do not abandon yourselves to despair. We are the Easter people and hallelujah is our song. Pope John Paul II
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9:18 am on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Nov. 2004 | Days Active: 1,236 Join to learn more about barnabas Arkansas, United States | Straight Female | Posts: 44,520 | Points: 63,970
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2kewl4u2know
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I think it has to do with the fact that it is easier to see the faults of mankind in Shakespeare's tragedies than his comedies. You have to remember, school is not only there just to teach us how to read, write, and do arithmetic. School is also there to teach us how to integrate into society and make it a better place. That means focusing on mankind's downfalls through the works of these great writer's and learning through them. Although I do agree, I wish they would do more than tragedies a majority of the time, and focus more on the ancients. Unfortunately, if they were to get into the really amazing work of Martial, Catullus, or Horace, it probably would be to risque for what is acceptable within a high school. But yeah, as I said in my first paragraph, we read tragedies in high school to look at mankind's faults (and strengths too). That's why we read literature like Romeo and Juliet, Things Fall Apart, The Crucible, and Anthony and Cleopatra, and more.
------- "Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery."
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( exceedinglyrare )
Delicate Thing
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Quote: from yellowsapphire at 12:18 pm on Dec. 9, 2008
Possibly because they're more exciting (if you want a boring Shakespeare, try reading 'A Winter's Tale'!), more happens in the tragedy plays and it can be used to get children into studying it. It's far easier to get kids/teens interested in death, witches, burning and evil than weird fairies and such like. That said, 'Much Ado About Nothing' is my favourite Shakespeare play. It's perhaps the only one I have bought without the necessity to. 
Mm, I don't know. An overwhelming amount of stuff happens in, say, Twelfth Night (the one comedy I remember formally studying in all of my years of high school and college, and it was mostly "studied" as a sort of read-through "Welcome to Shakespeare, kids!" in the seventh grade) compared to, say, Macbeth where Macbeth kills the king, visits some witches, and gets killed himself. I dunno. It might just be a matter of preference on my part, but I do wish that there would be more focus on the comedies and histories.
------- Let yourself be enchanted, You just might break through To ever ever after
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fenrir
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Ran, Throne of Blood, The Wicked Sleep Well, etc. I've grown more partial to Japanese interpretations of his writings rather than my Native tongue.
------- "How incitful of you, dwarf. Though I can't speak for fenrir, I beleive that he too has a certain degree of sarcasm and humor in his posts." - Prince o palities
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11:01 am on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Dec. 2002 | Days Active: 403 Join to learn more about fenrir Texas, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 2,867 | Points: 6,023
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medjai
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It's because Tragedy is more epic than comedy, and teachers probablydont teach the comedies because most students, even AP or IB have trouble following the tragedies, which are easier and far more linear than the comedies so if you graded kids on Shakespeare's comedies and forced them to analyze it and write essays on it, it would brood hatred for Shakespeare. Also I think it's because tragedies are more natural to READ than the comedies, and most schools don't have the funding to take their students to shakespeare's plays to watch the comedies. And finally, as far as longevity of literature, stories of the epic hero, and stories of tragedy, are pretty much at the top. I can name far more anciently written tragedies than I can ancient comedies. His tragedies are one of the main reasons he's studied 500 years later.
------- O` tru apothecary! Thy drugs are quick. Thus with a kiss I die.
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3:21 pm on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Nov. 2003 | Days Active: 1,595 Join to learn more about medjai California, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 17,156 | Points: 39,889
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fenrir
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I'd much rather have children learn Kierkegaard [Christian Existentialism] or Kant [Pure Reason] in reaction to David Hume [Opposition of Exhaustive Causality] as opposed to Much Ado About Nothing, Macbeth, Hamlet, etc. as mandatory reading in High School.
------- "How incitful of you, dwarf. Though I can't speak for fenrir, I beleive that he too has a certain degree of sarcasm and humor in his posts." - Prince o palities
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3:59 pm on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Dec. 2002 | Days Active: 403 Join to learn more about fenrir Texas, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 2,867 | Points: 6,023
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medjai
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Why? I think that Hamlet by itself is better than all of those philosophy works combined,
------- O` tru apothecary! Thy drugs are quick. Thus with a kiss I die.
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4:28 pm on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Nov. 2003 | Days Active: 1,595 Join to learn more about medjai California, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 17,156 | Points: 39,889
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fenrir
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Quote: from medjai at 6:28 pm on Dec. 9, 2008
Why? I think that Hamlet by itself is better than all of those philosophy works combined,
Hardly. Don Quixote had more socio-political influences coupled with relative perception of reality, and Hamlet never had any windmills. I'd rather have read and watched "Much Ado About Nothing" more than a handful of times than simply in college.
------- "How incitful of you, dwarf. Though I can't speak for fenrir, I beleive that he too has a certain degree of sarcasm and humor in his posts." - Prince o palities
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6:42 pm on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Dec. 2002 | Days Active: 403 Join to learn more about fenrir Texas, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 2,867 | Points: 6,023
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( exceedinglyrare )
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Quote: from medjai at 6:21 pm on Dec. 9, 2008
It's because Tragedy is more epic than comedy, and teachers probablydont teach the comedies because most students, even AP or IB have trouble following the tragedies, which are easier and far more linear than the comedies so if you graded kids on Shakespeare's comedies and forced them to analyze it and write essays on it, it would brood hatred for Shakespeare. Also I think it's because tragedies are more natural to READ than the comedies, and most schools don't have the funding to take their students to shakespeare's plays to watch the comedies. And finally, as far as longevity of literature, stories of the epic hero, and stories of tragedy, are pretty much at the top. I can name far more anciently written tragedies than I can ancient comedies. His tragedies are one of the main reasons he's studied 500 years later. 
Why do they have that longevity, though? I mean, it's fairly clear that more people know Oedipus Rex than Lysistrata (which is a shame, as the former was just annoying and the latter was uproariously awesome), but why? I don't think there are necessarily deeper truths in tragedy than in comedy; quite the opposite, I think you can find deeper truths asking yourself if, even without the aide of fairies, we are truly as ridiculous in love as Titania and Nick Bottom; if we would jump to conclusions about our lovers when things didn't feel right, as Claudio did about Hero; if we would find ourselves falling in love with someone of the gender we don't prefer if he or she was in disguise, as Olivia fell in with Violet? Of course, regarding the reading point, plays are never meant to be read by the audience. They're meant to be performed; hence the reason so many students have such a hard time working their way through any Shakespeare work when reading it but rather enjoy performing it or seeing it performed. I know that the plays I studied went by much more smoothly when we read and acted out scenes than when we were required to finish reading Act III for homework.
------- Let yourself be enchanted, You just might break through To ever ever after
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Fauna
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I don't think Shakespeare's tragedies ARE seen as more important than his histories or comedies, 'Taming of the Shrew' the most popular play performed currently by the Royal Shakespeare Company, and in England, his comedies are the genre mainly studied by school students. But, a tragedy is generally treated with more weight than a comedy because of the different themes the two choose to tackle. Shakespeare's comedies are brilliantly written, entertaining and sometimes manage to stumble their way into being hilarious even to a modern audience - but, they're not as philosophically reflective, and not as incisive into the human condition as his tragedies. Hamlet is the most sublime character ever to be written, Shakespeare couldn't have created such a character in his comedies. And Macbeth is an infinitely more complex play than Twelfth Night.
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7:20 pm on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Jan. 2007 | Days Active: 749 Join to learn more about Fauna England, United Kingdom | Bisexual Female | Posts: 13,147 | Points: 31,478
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fenrir
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Medjai, essays were fun to write only if the subject matter wasn't too drab and boring. As for the tragedies being more linear, the premises were far too limited in scope and application beyond the protagonist and antagonist. Revenge is a far easier plot to write than overlapping affairs held by mere gossip, yet lacks in ANY application otherwise. What are we to tell children following Hamlet's example? You know that at the end of most Shakespeare's comedies, there was also a hint of tragedy even for the hero of the narrative. However, can any explain to me what was the point of the puck in A Midsummer Night's Dream? I am not afraid to admit that I fell asleep from boredom after the first paragraph.
------- "How incitful of you, dwarf. Though I can't speak for fenrir, I beleive that he too has a certain degree of sarcasm and humor in his posts." - Prince o palities
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9:52 pm on Dec. 9, 2008 | Joined: Dec. 2002 | Days Active: 403 Join to learn more about fenrir Texas, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 2,867 | Points: 6,023
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omnifariam
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Shakespeare has always baffled me. Why the complicated metaphorical style? Even his contemporaries found it a little too pretentious, especially when they were meant for lighthearted plays. To date, no one could really agree on the interpretations of their various characters and plots.
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( exceedinglyrare )
Delicate Thing
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Quote: from Fauna at 10:20 pm on Dec. 9, 2008
I don't think Shakespeare's tragedies ARE seen as more important than his histories or comedies, 'Taming of the Shrew' the most popular play performed currently by the Royal Shakespeare Company, and in England, his comedies are the genre mainly studied by school students. But, a tragedy is generally treated with more weight than a comedy because of the different themes the two choose to tackle. Shakespeare's comedies are brilliantly written, entertaining and sometimes manage to stumble their way into being hilarious even to a modern audience - but, they're not as philosophically reflective, and not as incisive into the human condition as his tragedies. Hamlet is the most sublime character ever to be written, Shakespeare couldn't have created such a character in his comedies. And Macbeth is an infinitely more complex play than Twelfth Night. 
While that may be the case in the UK, over here in the US, it's a rare high school or college class that gives as much attention to the comedies and histories as to the tragedies. And I'll disagree with you on the complexity issue, as well.
------- Let yourself be enchanted, You just might break through To ever ever after
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