Of course, they cause pain to a few people for a while, and of course, it's definitely the suicidal who is being selfish when people tell him/her that they can't kill themselves because they wouldn't be able to cope, so they demand that the person who no longer has a want to live, lives, so they don't have to feel bad. Because suicidal are the selfish ones, definitely not the people who don't want to feel bad so they pull a guilt trip on that person, making them feel worse, and spend a long time here doing something they don't want to, all because the people that "love" them so much would rather that person suffer an entire lifetime then cope for a year or two.

And of course, it's not selfish at all that if one who wishes to die, tries and botches things one way or another, and an unexpected intervention or a trip to the hospital, it's ok to restrain that person and keep them locked up in a psychiatric ward even when they don't want to live, and drug them into a mindless stupor. It's ok to force these people for months to listen to things they don't want to hear from people they don't trust, and they just want to be done with everything. Because the suicidals are the selfish ones, not the people who will force them to live and take their mind away from them if they can't "cure" them so they don't kill themselves by subduing it with chemicals.

Why? Because if you are suicidal, something is automatically wrong with your head. It's not "normal" to not want to live, EVERYONE DOES IT! Funny, that sounds vaguely familiar, "Hey, they are different, so there must be something wrong with them!" I don't know...where could I start, umm, sexes? races? sexualities? In other words, just because you can't understand something, that automatically makes it "wrong" and you need to "fix" it. Makes perfect sense. While I'm not saying that there isn't Sally down the street who always dresses in black and cuts herself because all she wants is attention, a shoulder to cry on, and a pat on the back on her way out, but that doesn't mean that's everyone. Not everyone wants to be fixed, or cured, or made right, some people just don't want to live anymore. But then again, suicidals are the selfish ones, because they don't think the same way as everyone else so there must be something wrong with their heads and need to be fixed to think like most people, even if they don't want to.

So, to basically sum up the way most people think about suicide:

Dying is a bad thing, that I fear irrationally and think is a big deal, and if someone wants to die that I love and want the best for, then I need to make sure they stay on this planet and suffer for the rest of their life so I don't have to feel bad about the fact they died, because if he is suicidal, then there is obviously something wrong with him because I don't think that way.

Makes perfect sense. Just like how being gay is hereditary right?

Also, I am going to laugh, hard, if this topic gets deleted with a nice little message telling me that we don't need this kind of talk on this website, because that's just further proving my point that most people are arrogant enough to assume they know what's best, and have a right to suppress and "condition" if they think otherwise, whether they'd like to or not.

On a final note, don't tell me I don't know what it's like to be suicidal, because there's a reason I know exactly who is being the selfish one here.

And I love how so few people can detect the sarcasm that's practically pouring from this topic.

Post edited at 2:14 pm on Jan. 9, 2009 by The Last Magister

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I'm not wasted potential, you're just not worth my time.
The impossibility of perfection will tear me apart.
There's only so much you can do.
The Broken.

IMO, it can appear to be selfish. But it's much more complicated than that and I'd suggest that you can only speak for your own thoughts on suicide and selfishness, not on what other suicidal people may be feeling or thinking. If it was that simple, I doubt it would be such a problem for society and individuals.

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A Parent, old geezer, and occasionally right. Good judgment comes from bad
experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

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Your last line seems to imply you've been suicidal but you still think it's about being selfish.

IMO, it can appear to be selfish. But it's much more complicated than that and I'd suggest that you can only speak for your own thoughts on suicide and selfishness, not on what other suicidal people may be feeling or thinking. If it was that simple, I doubt it would be such a problem for society and individuals.

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I understand what your saying tho. If someone is truely unhappy enough to live anymore than y force them to stay here and suffer even more.

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I Love Matthew!!

depression is a mental illness, it is treatable. sometimes people are unable to reach out for help because their depression is so severe, it is these cases where help is extended to them.

it's only selfish if they're forced to live, and their illness isn't treated.

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- لورين

Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.

I also agree with what Fauna's just said.

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i think you're the same as me, we see things they'll never see

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If we're to follow your logic, then there would be no treatment for anyone who was harming themselves in any way.  

depression is a mental illness, it is treatable. sometimes people are unable to reach out for help because their depression is so severe, it is these cases where help is extended to them.  

it's only selfish if they're forced to live, and their illness isn't treated.

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In other words, mental illness assumes that if you don't think the same, and don't have the same chemical balance, then therefore there is something wrong with you so they need to fix it to be like everyone else's so you can be "well" which actually just means "conformed".

There is no treatment, because it isn't a disease. It's a mindset that the majority doesn't possess, so they assume it's wrong, they assume it's an illness, and even if the chemicals aren't the same, that doesn't mean they are a bad thing. The reason people do want help is because they want to conform, but not everyone wants to think the same way.

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I'm not wasted potential, you're just not worth my time.
The impossibility of perfection will tear me apart.
There's only so much you can do.
The Broken.

My sample size is too small to warrant a valid opinion. The only person I've ever known who tried to commit suicide did it because of a deep need to be loved and admired and the center of attention... and a lack of confidence in her ability to gain it by any other means. Suicide isn't selfish, no, but telling people that it is definitely is.

As for the people who tell someone who is suicidal not to commit suicide for them are trying desperately to give that person a reason, any reason, to live. They are trying to express their love for that person.

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Hypocrisy means never having to pick between 'right' and 'consistent'.

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I'd buy you an ice cream, but you're on the Internets.

My sample size is too small to warrant a valid opinion. The only person I've ever known who tried to commit suicide did it because of a deep need to be loved and admired and the center of attention... and a lack of confidence in her ability to gain it by any other means. Suicide isn't selfish, no, but telling people that it is definitely is.

As for the people who tell someone who is suicidal not to commit suicide for them are trying desperately to give that person a reason, any reason, to live. They are trying to express their love for that person.

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So it's alright to extort people and cause them even more pain if you love them?

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I'm not wasted potential, you're just not worth my time.
The impossibility of perfection will tear me apart.
There's only so much you can do.
The Broken.

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I would like to point out that a mental illness merely is saying that there is an abnormality in either the chemical balance of their brain or their thoughts when compared to a normal person's mind/brain.  

In other words, mental illness assumes that if you don't think the same, and don't have the same chemical balance, then therefore there is something wrong with you so they need to fix it to be like everyone else's so you can be "well" which actually just means "conformed".  

There is no treatment, because it isn't a disease. It's a mindset that the majority doesn't possess, so they assume it's wrong, they assume it's an illness, and even if the chemicals aren't the same, that doesn't mean they are a bad thing. The reason people do want help is because they want to conform, but not everyone wants to think the same way.

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It's not always a chemical imbalance, sometimes it's due to a trauma or a negligent upbringing or excessive stress - many things. depression is not some sort of alternative mindset, any more than cancer is just an alternative lifestyle choice. you're romanticizing mental illness.  

I'd wager that the vast majority of people suffering from depression don't actually WANT to be depressed. suicide isn't an option which is gladly chosen.

Post edited at 2:34 pm on Jan. 9, 2009 by Fauna

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- لورين

Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.