LiveWire Network Peer Answers Peer Support Teen Forums Tech Forums College Forums 521 users online 223059 members 1493 active today Advertise Here Sign In
TeenCollegeTechPhotos | Quizzes | LiveSecret | Memberlist | Dictionary | News | FAQ
Member Spotlight
Scarlet Tears
Movies: The Univited was pretty good =] As was...
Mood: Lifeless
You have 1 new message.
Emergency Help
Until you sign up you can't do much. Yes, it's free.

Sign Up Now
Membername:
Password:
Already have an account?
Invite Friends
Active Members
Groups
Contests
Moderators
4 online / 30 MPM
Fresh Topics
  LiveWire / Teen Forums / The Intellectual Forum / Viewing Topic

Should there be a seperation of Church and State?
Replies: 18Last Post Mar. 20 8:49pm by mikeyb
Welcome to LiveWire!
We're Stronger Together.
Join the Community
Pages: 1 2  Next » Email Print Favorite
Web Resources: Teen Pregnancy Facts, Abortion Facts
USA Youth Crisis Hotline: 1-800-448-4663
Choice Votes Percent  
Yes 34 77%
No 10 22%
Vote Now! 44 Votes Cast
( Mein Alias )


Professional
Reply
I live in Florida, and among my conversations I have learned that the vast majority of people believe that this country was founded by religious people with the intent of serving the people through religion. I believe this is false, as it's been stated that the belief of many of the founding fathers are superfluous at best.

I would consider a separation of Church and State being that, something from any religious texts cannot be provided in order to support or deny regulation, but can be manifested in the people calling the shots. So, whereas in my philosophy no Bible verse could be pulled in order to make Abortion illegal, people who believe that the Bible regulates this may defend the aforementioned action to the grave. Also, this means that no figure from any religion, or religion as a whole, can be present on government property or in a symbol that the American government endorses.

I've thought about this for awhile and believe it is the most fair order that would be possible regarding religion and politics. However, no one besides my family agrees and flat out thinks that we should govern based on Christianity, the most popular belief system in the USA.


2:01 pm on Jan. 9, 2009 | Joined: Jan. 2009 | Days Active: 67
Join to learn more about Mein Alias Florida, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 1,964 | Points: 2,698
LiveWire Humor
Just Waiting Here


Dairy Product Addict

Patron
Support Leader
Reply
I definitely agree with you.  Personally, for me, people can believe whatever they want.  But in such a large society with so many different religions (And those that don't follow a religion) I see no point in making people follow those beliefs.

Basically, I can respect that people have their own beliefs, but why do you have to make those beliefs govern the lives of others?  I do think that church and state should be kept separate, especially since times are changing.


2:05 pm on Jan. 9, 2009 | Joined: Dec. 2007 | Days Active: 528
Join to learn more about Just Waiting Here United States | Posts: 13,286 | Points: 20,169
smartlake


Enlightened One

Patron
Reply
Just because a passage from the Bible is used does not mean that we are pushing religion down people's throats or that the message of it should be totally disregarded.  (I wasn't referring to the OP necessarily).  We have freedom of religion, not necessarily freedom from religion.  

-------
Hope
Hype

1:15 pm on Jan. 12, 2009 | Joined: Aug. 2004 | Days Active: 539
Join to learn more about smartlake Washington, United States | Asexual Male | Posts: 5,214 | Points: 14,235
Micus


Like hell you will

Patron
Reply
Just because the Bible is anti-abortion doesn't mean that just regular people can't be as well.

It's only when public officials start quoting scripture when i start to go

-------
Educators destroy your brain,
but you don't know, so why care?
Fagotto


2:33 pm on Jan. 12, 2009 | Joined: Oct. 2004 | Days Active: 1,299
Join to learn more about Micus Connecticut, United States | Gay Male | Posts: 20,921 | Points: 35,708
roflfuckyou


you broke me

Sustainer
Support Leader
Reply
I am a secularist, and so I want church and state to be separated. I think laws, the education system and all of that are largely influenced by the church and it really annoys me.
Not all of us are religious and I think it's about time we step out of the Church's shadow.

10:53 am on Jan. 20, 2009 | Joined: June 2008 | Days Active: 457
Join to learn more about roflfuckyou Tokelau | Posts: 17,296 | Points: 40,618
medjai



Patron
Reply
Freedom of religion requires freedom from religion.

-------
O` tru apothecary!
Thy drugs are quick.
Thus with a kiss I die.

3:16 am on Jan. 22, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2003 | Days Active: 1,604
Join to learn more about medjai California, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 17,294 | Points: 40,118
imatwirp


Professional
Reply
I totally agree with you, however I must point out one tiny little flaw from your statements.

If we cannot use religion in any issues, what do we do then? How are we to decide what is right, and what is wrong? Do we let a 3rd party bystander decide for us who has no interest in the topic, or do we use our gut feelings (religious morals) to decide.

I believe morals are what teach us right and wrong, however we cannot push our morals onto anyone else.
I also believe that every being has the right to LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

So if a guy comes into my house and kills my sister and my dog, he should be brought up on charges for two crimes, murder of the girl, and murder of the dog.

(Neither I have.)
Just making a point.

But what I am getting at, is that the moment you deny another being life, or liberty, or pursuit of happiness, you have just given up your own rights, because you have taken away from someone else, thus justice says you lose your rights as well.


-------
If I wanted to listen to an asshole. Id fart.


7:08 pm on Mar. 1, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2005 | Days Active: 162
Join to learn more about imatwirp Texas, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 412 | Points: 2,070
S0LITUDE


g u a p a

Patron
Support Leader
Reply
That's one of the most stupid things I've heard in a long time.



-------
All I know is that I know everything
-S0LITUDE


8:01 pm on Mar. 1, 2009 | Joined: Dec. 2008 | Days Active: 332
Join to learn more about S0LITUDE Portugal | Lesbian Female | Posts: 13,209 | Points: 31,429
Elm


Dairy Product Addict
Reply
Quote: from Mein Alias at 2:01 pm on Jan. 9, 2009

I live in Florida, and among my conversations I have learned that the vast majority of people believe that this country was founded by religious people with the intent of serving the people through religion. I believe this is false, as it's been stated that the belief of many of the founding fathers are superfluous at best.

I would consider a separation of Church and State being that, something from any religious texts cannot be provided in order to support or deny regulation, but can be manifested in the people calling the shots. So, whereas in my philosophy no Bible verse could be pulled in order to make Abortion illegal, people who believe that the Bible regulates this may defend the aforementioned action to the grave. Also, this means that no figure from any religion, or religion as a whole, can be present on government property or in a symbol that the American government endorses.

I've thought about this for awhile and believe it is the most fair order that would be possible regarding religion and politics. However, no one besides my family agrees and flat out thinks that we should govern based on Christianity, the most popular belief system in the USA.



This country most populated by religious people (at first) wanting to do so, it was not founded on that belief.

Those who believe we should govern on Christianity because it is the most popular - would they rethink their belief once some other religion were to become the most popular and therefore it is then ok to make them abide by the belief of others?  I think not.

Government and religion when mixed always serve to corrupt both.

As a pastor I cannot tolerate any congregation of the two.


5:15 pm on Mar. 2, 2009 | Joined: Dec. 2006 | Days Active: 414
Join to learn more about Elm Pennsylvania, United States | Posts: 8,455 | Points: 12,836
Wilder


Connoisseur of Hallucination

Patron
Support Leader
Reply
Quote: from Micus at 3:33 pm on Jan. 12, 2009

Just because the Bible is anti-abortion doesn't mean that just regular people can't be as well.

It's only when public officials start quoting scripture when i start to go


The Bible addresses abortion?

-------
"Hey, that's not very nice, Mayor--
just because a person's gay doesn't mean he's a fag!"
-Stan


6:46 pm on Mar. 2, 2009 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 1,084
Join to learn more about Wilder Colorado, United States | Gay Male | Posts: 8,886 | Points: 33,326
sydneysue13


Guru

Patron
Reply
I definitely think Church and State should be separated. While it may be true that our nation was founded by mostly religious people, the ideas the Founding Fathers had included freedom of religion seeing as religion posed a problem for other countries in the past. The United States was intended to be the "Land of Liberty" including the liberty to choose one's religious beliefs. I don't believe schools should teach creation-based science or sex-ed based on abstinence. I believe that schools should only teach facts and things that are definitely known. Theories are welcomed, it's good to learn things from all different perspectives, but no theory such as creationism should be taught as fact in a government run school.

-------
She's well acquainted with the touch of the
velvet hand like a lizard on a window pane...

7:55 pm on Mar. 3, 2009 | Joined: Oct. 2005 | Days Active: 585
Join to learn more about sydneysue13 Georgia, United States | Straight Female | Posts: 12,757 | Points: 20,125
libertine

Omnipotent One

Patron
Reply
while i am in favour of (pretty much total) separation of church and state, i am also in favour of democracy. denying religious representatives the same voice that is given to everyone else by saying "no figure from any religion, or religion as a whole, can be present on government property" is just fucking ridiculous, undemocratic, and totally against the principles of liberty.

-------
Incidentally this signature is available in the foyer.

12:19 pm on Mar. 5, 2009 | Joined: May 2006 | Days Active: 935
Join to learn more about libertine England, United Kingdom | Straight Male | Posts: 11,089 | Points: 18,689
Marty3


Visionary

Ad Free
Support Leader
Reply
If, for example, the President was a religious Christian, then there would be a chance that s/he wouldn't make the right decision based on something from the Bible. There is a growing number of people that believe that religion is just a form of controlling people without the people realising it- i.e. if you're good you go to heaven, but if you're bad, you go to Hell, in the case of Christianity. The ruling person of a country shouldn't have anything like that influencing him/her.

-------
Modesty is one of my many admirable qualities. If you need
to talk, even just to get something off your chest, PM me.

12:41 am on Mar. 6, 2009 | Joined: Feb. 2009 | Days Active: 123
Join to learn more about Marty3 Scotland, United Kingdom | Straight Male | Posts: 5,749 | Points: 8,904
Gamelander


Technician
Reply
I do believe that the Church and the State should be two separate entities. Although, with the case of my country (the Philippines), I doubt that that's ever going to happen. Based on our culture and history, religion has been a major part of how we live our lives.

In my opinion, that isn't necessarily a good thing. There are times that it really shows that the Church has a more powerful hold on the people than the government do here in the Philippines. No matter what the Church says, the government listens. So, in essence we sometimes end up being ruled by the Church rather than the government. The majority of the Philippines is under the Roman Catholic Religion, but considering 1/3 of the Philippines (Mindanao) is mostly composed of Muslims, I'm sure this may seem unfair to them. Christians and Muslims as we should all know haven't had the best record when it comes to agreeing to terms.

In conclusion, the government, for me, should be separate from the church. The church should then take charge of the people of the church and not of the country.


9:34 am on Mar. 6, 2009 | Joined: Mar. 2009 | Days Active: 21
Join to learn more about Gamelander Philippines | Bi-curious Male | Posts: 51 | Points: 318
Moridin


Guru

Ad Free
Reply
It is not freedom to religion, but freedom from (statist) religion.

-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

1:41 pm on Mar. 6, 2009 | Joined: April 2006 | Days Active: 607
Join to learn more about Moridin Sweden | Asexual Male | Posts: 12,822 | Points: 20,287
Pages: 1 2  Next » Email Print Favorite

Quick Reply

Prereq. Intellectual Test
You are signed in as our guest.

Looking for something else?
 

  LiveWire / Teen Forums / The Intellectual Forum / Viewing Topic