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Quote: from SAMMYJS99 at 8:06 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from Majo at 8:04 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 8:02 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:01 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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The DSM-IV criteria has been heavily criticised as to whether or not such conditions really exist and the psychological factor in itself. I don't doubt people can feel extremely sad or 'depressed' but if it merits a medical diagnosis is the point here.  

  No, the pills don't contain serotonin, but instead help to increase serotonin concentration by preventing its reuptake.

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Yeah.

  The condition is 'fake' in that it doesn't exist as a legitimate medical diagnosis, but it's very real as an emotional problem, as are all mental disorders.

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  Is the latter not a form of the former?

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 NOW, i am really confused.

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XD

The guy I was responding to said that it's not a "legitimate medical diagnosis" but referred to it as a mental disorder...and I was just wondering how the latter (mental disorders) differs from the former (medical disorders)? Because the mind is a part of the body and it can get "sick" just like any other part like your liver or heart or kidneys and needs treated. At least that's how it was put to me anyways.

I mean...if a mental disorder isn't a medical disorder, what is it? It's kind of hard to explain...like...how is it an entirely different beast?

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I'd describe 'mental disorders' as extreme emotional problems which have been stigmatized as medical because they're difficult to deal with.

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join this group only if youre a mod

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I don't understand why prisoner of hss finds it implausible that the brain could have a problem that leads it to synthesize inadequete levels of serotonin, etc.

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Almost everyone I've met with depression, which is a lot of people, have had good reasons behind feeling the way they do. Yet they're just slapped with the 'chemical imbalance' label because people don't know what else to do.

I'm sure it's possible, but it'd be very different than what you see in typical 'depression'. And, given that there's no evidence of causation, it doesn't seem like the right route to go.

Post edited at 5:18 pm on Jan. 10, 2009 by iconoclast

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join this group only if youre a mod

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Quote: from Majo at 8:09 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from SAMMYJS99 at 8:06 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from Majo at 8:04 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 8:02 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:01 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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The DSM-IV criteria has been heavily criticised as to whether or not such conditions really exist and the psychological factor in itself. I don't doubt people can feel extremely sad or 'depressed' but if it merits a medical diagnosis is the point here.    

   No, the pills don't contain serotonin, but instead help to increase serotonin concentration by preventing its reuptake.

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Yeah.      

  The condition is 'fake' in that it doesn't exist as a legitimate medical diagnosis, but it's very real as an emotional problem, as are all mental disorders.

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  Is the latter not a form of the former?

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  NOW, i am really confused.

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 XD  

 The guy I was responding to said that it's not a "legitimate medical diagnosis" but referred to it as a mental disorder...and I was just wondering how the latter (mental disorders) differs from the former (medical disorders)? Because the mind is a part of the body and it can get "sick" just like any other part like your liver or heart or kidneys and needs treated. At least that's how it was put to me anyways.  

 I mean...if a mental disorder isn't a medical disorder, what is it? It's kind of hard to explain...like...how is it an entirely different beast?

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It's different in that the causes are typically psychological/emotional responses to the environment whereas with a real medical illness, the cause is physical and there is an actual pathology. There might be changes in the brain with someone with a mental disorder, but again, effect not cause. Important to state that, because a lot of people misinterpret correlation to mean causation.

I'd describe 'mental disorders' as extreme emotional problems which have been stigmatized as medical because they're difficult to deal with.

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Ah, yeah, you're right. I know I became depressed in response to my environment but aren't some disorders genetic? So wouldn't that give it weight as a medical disorder?

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"Under the hardness of her facade a woman's heart is still beating."

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It's different in that the causes are typically psychological/emotional responses to the environment whereas with a real medical illness, the cause is physical and there is an actual pathology.

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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 8:12 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from Majo at 8:09 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from SAMMYJS99 at 8:06 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from Majo at 8:04 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 8:02 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:01 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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The DSM-IV criteria has been heavily criticised as to whether or not such conditions really exist and the psychological factor in itself. I don't doubt people can feel extremely sad or 'depressed' but if it merits a medical diagnosis is the point here.      

  No, the pills don't contain serotonin, but instead help to increase serotonin concentration by preventing its reuptake.

---

Yeah.        

  The condition is 'fake' in that it doesn't exist as a legitimate medical diagnosis, but it's very real as an emotional problem, as are all mental disorders.

---

     

  Is the latter not a form of the former?

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 NOW, i am really confused.

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XD    

The guy I was responding to said that it's not a "legitimate medical diagnosis" but referred to it as a mental disorder...and I was just wondering how the latter (mental disorders) differs from the former (medical disorders)? Because the mind is a part of the body and it can get "sick" just like any other part like your liver or heart or kidneys and needs treated. At least that's how it was put to me anyways.    

I mean...if a mental disorder isn't a medical disorder, what is it? It's kind of hard to explain...like...how is it an entirely different beast?

---

It's different in that the causes are typically psychological/emotional responses to the environment whereas with a real medical illness, the cause is physical and there is an actual pathology. There might be changes in the brain with someone with a mental disorder, but again, effect not cause. Important to state that, because a lot of people misinterpret correlation to mean causation.

I'd describe 'mental disorders' as extreme emotional problems which have been stigmatized as medical because they're difficult to deal with.

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Ah, yeah, you're right. I know I became depressed in response to my environment but aren't some disorders genetic? So wouldn't that give it weight as a medical disorder?

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I'll add that since depression is often a complex set of emotions; given the way genetics works, direct impact is highly unlikely. Indirect influence from genetics is likely on basic personality and mental disorders, but is meaningless in terms of treatment. All you get is "people with different basic personalities react differently to the same stress". Sure, some people will react worse overall if they tend to have an intense personality, but there are upsides and downsides to everything, you know?

Post edited at 5:22 pm on Jan. 10, 2009 by iconoclast

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join this group only if youre a mod

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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 5:12 pm on Jan. 10, 2009

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It's different in that the causes are typically psychological/emotional responses to the environment whereas with a real medical illness, the cause is physical and there is an actual pathology.

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Medical maladies almost always have an external cause. The trauma leading to depression is comparable to the virus responsible for a cold.

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A virus is a physical infection.

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join this group only if youre a mod

i used to think the same thing, until i experienced it and realized it's a bit more than a "tough time."

I always looked about it this way.

Thirty years ago, there was no depression, ADD, ADHD, or any other mental illnesses, and we got along just fine without them.

But now, physicians are giving out drugs for anything and everything.

However, taking into consideration, Some people (very few) But some people cannot help it.

Bipolar disorder is real, I have seen it first hand, it is usually prone in older men. And these people along with people who take alot of medications are prone to depression.

Drugs mess with the chemical balances in your head and this is what causes depression.

But the real cure is just to have a positive attitude.

The best thing to do when your feeling bad is to just get up off your butt, and do something fun/entertaining.

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If I wanted to listen to an asshole. Id fart.

But more than anything else, its real and many people suffer from it

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So why did I do it? I could offer a million answers, all false.
The truth is that I'm a bad person, but that's going to change.
I'm going to change.

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We did have the issues we have now thirty years back but more and more people are suffering from it. This means that the cause of most of these problems are enviromental. The world we live in today is shitty as fuck n get worse each day. Maybe that has something to do with it?!?

But more than anything else, its real and many people suffer from it

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Environmental?

More likely, just as many people suffered then as they do now, and we notice it more now because we do have medication to help treat the symptoms.

And, of course, misdiagnosis is going to be more prevelant.