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"explain" =P

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I was implying someone used that exact same shitty insult on you and you, ingeniously, stole it and saved it up and let it sit for a month or two and threw it in a necessary post.
 :D

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"explain" :P

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"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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kk, he wasnt being racist, end of story, what the other commentor said about "i like KFC too" makes sense and is a fine argument.

HE said I know these kinds of people, not "I know his people's ways". The first implies that he is speaking about criminals specifically ones that are emotionally detached giving them the ability to kill and then non chalantly go to KFC. The second example would be an implication he is speaking about black people. Honestly it was coincidental that he said KFC, i don't think this convo would have started had he said Burger King or Pho Ti or something like that.
having said that I dislike people who cannot admit that they said something racist. I may not like racists but I appreciate at least when someone admits their views, after that point they have the option to change if they dont, not my intial problem, wait till they screw up and piss off the wrong person and then they will get what is coming to them.

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A fine example of someone in denial of the racist statement! Living proof of what I was talking about people :D

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"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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You must be joking?.....evidence please...and I mean real evidence that I am wrong, take the time, and think.......

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I really don't think it was a coincidental thing. That is the exact same thing the person in denial of the racist statement said. I mean knowing the person who said it, it was meant. I wouldn't take it as a coincidental thing.

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"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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knowing the person who said it? you know them? you're on a first name basis? you went to school for ten years together? How is it that You know them that makes you soo sure that it was meant in a racist way? Honestly you can take it any way you wish to but that doesnt prove that it is racist that is your interpetation. I am willing to be fair, if you are arguing that you interpet what he said as racist and cannot back it up with proof I will acknowledge your strong feelings  and keep my own view, if we are arguing objectively thought I need proof.

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Lets try not to revolve this whole discussion off this one example for theie are many more incidents in general that happen in reality. But as for that example. You can not assume it wasn't meant either. If you know that the person has prejudice or ignorant views on a race then it is obvious that you know what he meant when he said it. Not that I know that News Journalist but I am aware of his views on black people (He's an ass trust me.)

But on cases outside this example. You have to agree that things like this happen no? Where someone tries to defend a prejudice or racist statement just so they can try to make their race look less prejudice when race shouldn't be a factor when defending what's right and shunning what's wrong?

Post edited at 10:54 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 by Moonscar

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"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

If you know someone has views that are admittidly racist in nature then yes it can be possible for someone to have made said statement racist and I am willing to admit that this can be intepreted as such, as I said before, I am saying proof that on this occasion that he meant it in a racist way...if a someone has a history of fainting in the past, and then faints one day a month later after their last one it could be related to whatever usually causes these fainting spells or bizarrely something completely different. Case and point it could have been racist but where is your proof, the comment could also have been sexist, ageist or even prejucicial against religion. You can make any argument you want, but the phrase ( He's an ass, trust me) inspires little confidence.

Lastly, yes people do sometimes defend something if only to be in fact protecting a secret,  it could be defending racists when they are really racist, or defending gays because they are gay or defending ones sex because of something to do with that sex....doesnt matter...they could be doing it for any number of reasons, and I am willing to admit that.....I am questioning are you looking to say subjectively that you believe that he was being racist with his statement. If So ok, I will agree it can be infered, but then again I can make the claim that it was sexist and draw proof to show that, I can also draw proof to say it could have been an issue of ageism.....

OBjectively? Find proof.

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They say the lord gives only what he believes we can handle,
I just wish he didn't trust me soo much. :'(

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race isnt a factor...White people are racist, black people are racist as are chinese and those from middle east, etc...

If you know someone has views that are admittidly racist in nature then yes it can be possible for someone to have made said statement racist and I am willing to admit that this can be intepreted as such, as I said before, I am saying proof that on this occasion that he meant it in a racist way...if a someone has a history of fainting in the past, and then faints one day a month later after their last one it could be related to whatever usually causes these fainting spells or bizarrely something completely different. Case and point it could have been racist but where is your proof, the comment could also have been sexist, ageist or even prejucicial against religion. You can make any argument you want, but the phrase ( He's an ass, trust me) inspires little confidence.  

Lastly, yes people do sometimes defend something if only to be in fact protecting a secret, it could be defending racists when they are really racist, or defending gays because they are gay or defending ones sex because of something to do with that sex....doesnt matter...they could be doing it for any number of reasons, and I am willing to admit that.....I am questioning are you looking to say subjectively that you believe that he was being racist with his statement. If So ok, I will agree it can be infered, but then again I can make the claim that it was sexist and draw proof to show that, I can also draw proof to say it could have been an issue of ageism.....

OBjectively? Find proof.

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That's exactly what I said though. Race isn't a factor. Well I never knew of a stereotype that was sexist about KFC. I think your thinking a little too wide spread  

But my question to you is, do you agree that this happens? You said yes. As far as " how can you prove" thing. Lets be real now, if you know something was racist and you know the person said it to be racist, you really don't need to debate about it. It's just like " a girl takes another girls man and now that girl isn't her friend anymore."

No one is going to be like " No even though we all saw that girl take her man, and we saw that she was furious about it, I need more proof. I mean that isn't a really good example but we all know. Not everything is statistics. Don't let kid Runne make you lose faith in what you know and start relying on some data all the time.  

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"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

As for a stereotype about KFC it could be inferred that more men then women eat KFC, which would explain why he said that this man would kill then go to KFC, it could be inferred why would he not kill and then go and eat some yummy vegatable stir fry...because there are studies to prove that men prefer meat while women prefer vegatables.

by the way your man stealing example is flawed... Yes if a women takes another women's man, and everyone sees her take the man, it is little wonder why the girls arent friends anymore. However, It doesnt sink up with the racism theme. We don't know for sure that he said anything racist, where as we can plainly see that she stole the other girls man. You could have said that there were signs that this women had previous issues with her friend regarding loyalty issues, that the women was a slut, or anything, and your argument would have had more legitimacy, but you created the perfect role where no one has to think hard, where everything is objective, the exact thing making it useless to use as an argument for what you were arguing.

I rely on data for things that should be relied on using data. If I have a serious of symptoms i'm going to a doctor, not sitting in front of many medicines thinking "this one might work, or has been provent to work". Don't let your sole called gut dick you around. If you have proof that he admitted what he said was racist, that other people have done anaylsis on his speech, phonetics, body language, lie detector test.  IF you have a degree or anything to back it up that would do just fine.

If however you don't there is no shame in saying that you simply believe that he was being racist, then it becomes an opinion. Which would mean you have an opinion and I have an opinion. Note that while we have differing opinions I have black friends, speak out against racism of all kinds, organize protests against racism, and above all treat everyone equally...so either I am a HUGE RACIST with a REALLY GOOD COVER, or I am here playing devils advocate because it needs to be done.  honeslty, i'm sitting here and trying to reason with you, without smily faces, without anything smug, and I couldnt care less  if I win this argument to tell the truth...because knowing when to back down is a sign of humility and being proven wrong is not the end. But understand that proof is needed in a lot of cases to affect change and this is one of those cases. You don't charge someone  of a crime without proof, going on a gut feeling and I know their past...for all you know people can change, and you don't judge legitimacy of sickness of a person has by judging that they cant have any diseases because they were at one time a hypocondriac, because they could actually be sick, even if said person has Munch-howsins, it is still possible. My point at the end of this, which i hope by the Lord you get is, feelings are great, they serve to stir us to right wrongs, to save lives to do great things, but somewhere along the way you need to convince other people and for that you need proof....some kind of proof other than gut feelings and coincidental facts. Guy COULD have been racist, but was he? How do you know.

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They say the lord gives only what he believes we can handle,
I just wish he didn't trust me soo much. :'(

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true,  why rely on data, it's never done us any good why cant we all be in touch with our feelings and do what our guts tell us then we would be free from pain, the pain of thinking....

As for a stereotype about KFC it could be inferred that more men then women eat KFC, which would explain why he said that this man would kill then go to KFC, it could be inferred why would he not kill and then go and eat some yummy vegatable stir fry...because there are studies to prove that men prefer meat while women prefer vegatables.  

by the way your man stealing example is flawed... Yes if a women takes another women's man, and everyone sees her take the man, it is little wonder why the girls arent friends anymore. However, It doesnt sink up with the racism theme. We don't know for sure that he said anything racist, where as we can plainly see that she stole the other girls man. You could have said that there were signs that this women had previous issues with her friend regarding loyalty issues, that the women was a slut, or anything, and your argument would have had more legitimacy, but you created the perfect role where no one has to think hard, where everything is objective, the exact thing making it useless to use as an argument for what you were arguing.

I rely on data for things that should be relied on using data. If I have a serious of symptoms i'm going to a doctor, not sitting in front of many medicines thinking "this one might work, or has been provent to work". Don't let your sole called gut dick you around. If you have proof that he admitted what he said was racist, that other people have done anaylsis on his speech, phonetics, body language, lie detector test.  IF you have a degree or anything to back it up that would do just fine.

If however you don't there is no shame in saying that you simply believe that he was being racist, then it becomes an opinion. Which would mean you have an opinion and I have an opinion. Note that while we have differing opinions I have black friends, speak out against racism of all kinds, organize protests against racism, and above all treat everyone equally...so either I am a HUGE RACIST with a REALLY GOOD COVER, or I am here playing devils advocate because it needs to be done.  honeslty, i'm sitting here and trying to reason with you, without smily faces, without anything smug, and I couldnt care less  if I win this argument to tell the truth...because knowing when to back down is a sign of humility and being proven wrong is not the end. But understand that proof is needed in a lot of cases to affect change and this is one of those cases. You don't charge someone  of a crime without proof, going on a gut feeling and I know their past...for all you know people can change, and you don't judge legitimacy of sickness of a person has by judging that they cant have any diseases because they were at one time a hypocondriac, because they could actually be sick, even if said person has Munch-howsins, it is still possible. My point at the end of this, which i hope by the Lord you get is, feelings are great, they serve to stir us to right wrongs, to save lives to do great things, but somewhere along the way you need to convince other people and for that you need proof....some kind of proof other than gut feelings and coincidental facts. Guy COULD have been racist, but was he? How do you know.

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1. I told you the example wouldn't be the best one so you were already informed that it would be flawed.

2. No one is trying to imply you are racist. I did feel by that part of your essay though that you were stereotyping me as someone who calls everything racist

2. I think that "proof" is great also but people who accuse someone of complaining too much if they heard something they thought was racist is wrong. Mostly the people who say " I didn't find that racist" probably wouldn't because the stereotype was never made against them. If they were exposed to it like the people of that race they probably would catch that it was prejudice. My point is that people can't really say "That wasn't racist, you just think everything is racist" if they are not that race and haven't been exposed to the racial slur or stereotype enough to catch that. that's a common problem between people of different races. What blacks may find racist others may not, particularly because of not being that race and experiencing the slurs.

I mean other than that your good I guess

Also in a lot of cases things are not meant but can still be taken as offensive to some people. That is why so many people give apologies for things they said but didn't mean  

My point is. You can't really tell someone of a different race what's offensive to them and what isn't. Unless it is an obvious overreaction of something petty which does happen but a lot of the time(like the subject we are talking of now) it isn't an overreaction.

Post edited at 12:28 am on Dec. 31, 2008 by Moonscar

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"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

2.I wasnt stereotyping you as someone who calls people racist just referring to what you said in an earlier statement about people speaking out to cover things up, or did we make an agreement not to go back and use past info in the present?  

3.As for me not finding something racist because I dont come from a certain race, idk about that. I get upset everytime someone calls me a nigger, pollock, spic or heck everytime i'm accused of putting a shinny curse on someone. And Stereotypes are made against white people two, and I could say I just shrug them off and other people should too but that would be insensitive because just because I can deal with a verbal attack doesnt mean everyone can. Surely everyone has a different level of tolerance.  

Additionally, do people often tell you that you must frequent the KFC? is that how you caught this? Do people mistake you for a lover of "fine cuisine" and look down on you for it? I'm actually not being snippy in that line of questioning, just curious because the vast amount of people i've seen with travelling i've had to do, has been a crap load of caucasians eating KFC and not as many african americans. Meaning other he and you live in a place i havent been to which has a lot of Black KFC fanatics or he believes black people love the Cournals 11 herbs and spices for some reason I will prolly never know about. Honesty racism is a horrible thing, I hate it, I have heard a lot of racist terms for people of all races, and not just names but stereotypes, honestly havent heard of black people being all that crazy for KFC.  

It's my opinion that your argument about people being more adept at noticing racist remarks because they have heard them before is true. What people find offensive however is up to them, I know plenty of black people who could care less about being called nigger or whatever else, they care more about things like assault, or battery...theft, etc.

Besides that you're good.

finishing up...People should not apologize for things that they didnt say. If I tell someone I love to eat meat and they are a vegan, i'm not shitting on their way of life, my statement was merely that a proclamation of my love for meat, not my clever way of saying go suck tofu or whatever it is people who hate vegans say. People try to be politically correct too often, you are almost always going to piss someone off, doesnt mean you stop to think every second of everyday about what you are going to do and say with the upmost scrutinty...If you screw up, then you say you are sorry, but You do not sit there and wait for someone to get mad and then if no one does sigh in relief and continue about your business.

I'm not sure this is a real example of outrage at the percieved use of racism or an overexaggeration but regardless I really do need explanation to wrap up how what he said was racist? I mean all of what is being said by you speaks to me like you are morally outraged by what was said :S  

SO either you saw what he said as being racist and want to explain to me how it was so I can join you in your outrage or it is an overeaction to something that might not have even need to have been reacted to. I'm just looking for why it was racist. Explain it to me, for all you know you could be more vanilla than me, I could have experienced thousands if not more cases where I was the victim of racism, but I want to understand what it is about what he said that set you off?

oh and just in case you were wondering why I was gone soo long, or left cause I took a long time or whatever, I was watching house, which I couldnt pause, figured you could wait a half hour or so.

Post edited at 1:19 am on Dec. 31, 2008 by Mindwalker

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They say the lord gives only what he believes we can handle,
I just wish he didn't trust me soo much. :'(

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1. Come up with a better example. There is no point coming up with a flawed explaination and then telling someone it is flawed, just dont use it.

2.I wasnt stereotyping you as someone who calls people racist just referring to what you said in an earlier statement about people speaking out to cover things up, or did we make an agreement not to go back and use past info in the present?

3.As for me not finding something racist because I dont come from a certain race, idk about that. I get upset everytime someone calls me a nigger, pollock, spic or heck everytime i'm accused of putting a shinny curse on someone. And Stereotypes are made against white people two, and I could say I just shrug them off and other people should too but that would be insensitive because just because I can deal with a verbal attack doesnt mean everyone can. Surely everyone has a different level of tolerance.

Additionally, do people often tell you that you must frequent the KFC? is that how you caught this? Do people mistake you for a lover of "fine cuisine" and look down on you for it? I'm actually not being snippy in that line of questioning, just curious because the vast amount of people i've seen with travelling i've had to do, has been a crap load of caucasians eating KFC and not as many african americans. Meaning other he and you live in a place i havent been to which has a lot of Black KFC fanatics or he believes black people love the Cournals 11 herbs and spices for some reason I will prolly never know about. Honesty racism is a horrible thing, I hate it, I have heard a lot of racist terms for people of all races, and not just names but stereotypes, honestly havent heard of black people being all that crazy for KFC.

It's my opinion that your argument about people being more adept at noticing racist remarks because they have heard them before is true. What people find offensive however is up to them, I know plenty of black people who could care less about being called nigger or whatever else, they care more about things like assault, or battery...theft, etc.  

Besides that you're good.

finishing up...People should not apologize for things that they didnt say. If I tell someone I love to eat meat and they are a vegan, i'm not shitting on their way of life, my statement was merely that a proclamation of my love for meat, not my clever way of saying go suck tofu or whatever it is people who hate vegans say.  People try to be politically correct too often, you are almost always going to piss someone off, doesnt mean you stop to think every second of everyday about what you are going to do and say with the upmost scrutinty...If you screw up, then you say you are sorry, but You do not sit there and wait for someone to get mad and then if no one does sigh in relief and continue about your business.

I'm not sure this is a real example of outrage at the percieved use of racism or an overexaggeration but regardless I really do need explanation to wrap up how what he said was racist? I mean all of what is being said by you speaks to me like you are morally outraged by what was said :S

SO either you saw what he said as being racist and want to explain to me how it was so I can join you in your outrage or it is an overeaction to something that might not have even need to have been reacted to. I'm just looking for why it was racist. Explain it to me, for all you know you could be more vanilla than me, I could have experienced thousands if not more cases where I was the victim of racism, but I want to understand what it is about what he said that set you off?

oh and just in case you were wondering why I was gone soo long, or left cause I took a long time or whatever, I was watching house, which I couldnt pause, figured you could wait a half hour or so.

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1. If your not sure that "this is a real example of outrage" then why bother trying to use something your not sure about? Sorry, I just like catching some hypocrisy in things. Not trying to Dis xD

Exactly, you haven't heard the KFC stereotype. My point again is that you can't determine if that isn't offensive to another race just because it hasn't been brought to you. My point still stands. Besides you are not the example of this. There are many people of different races, who are ignorant to these stereotypes because they have never heard them before, which makes them think they can tell someone else that it wasn't offensive and that they should stop whining. If they would have just said that they didn't find it offensive, oh well, it's not like they would or that it's their fault that they don't find it offensive. But when you try to tell someone else what could be offensive to them, not even knowing knowledge of the common stereotype, that is wrong.

Your vegan example by the way is very different. Of course there is nothing wrong with saying someone likes meat. It's an opinion. Though if there was a common stereotype that "all vegans eat mold off the ground" that could be offensive. I mean even if it was a joke, people can take offense to it which is why public apologies are given. Now if someone was drunk and said something really racist on TV during a speech or something, shouldn't they have to apologize still even if they didn't mean what they said? That's just my question. Cause usually that is the curious thing to do when you say offensive things.

Also yes, I have been told to go eat some KFC and shut up because I was debating with someone about race. The thing is, yes I do eat KFC but we barley get it and when we do, I mostly eat the mash potatoes and the biscuits. The KFC stereotype has got to be the most popular to use on black people.

So of course people who have knowledge of the stereotype who aren't that race would probably catch it. But if you are one of those people who don't  know(which happens in a lot of cases) then that doesn't mean you should think those people are overreacting if you haven't experienced it yourself.

I mean who really has proof that anything was racist when it happens so fast. That is why despite constitutional rights, people are still discriminated against because of racist attacks that have no proof. I guess this is more of a way of seeing it. But my point that someone who wouldn't know the KFC stereotype wouldn't think it was bad has been clarified. Usually the people who do know it would view it as meaning something.

I mean I think you already have your answer to why I thought it was a stereotype. That's because it is a stereotype. I mean knowing the guys views and his (conservative fox news attitude) is enough for me. I mean a lot of people already know what fox news thinks about black people, especially when they commit crimes. I mean other people may not feel that it was prejudice or maybe not care but don't shun the people who call out that it was a prejudice statement.

Besides I went to sleep so I wasn't waiting for you to reply

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"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

I know I agree with you.

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♥ ♥

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It's a free country and I think that if you don't like it leave.

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having said that I dislike people who cannot admit that they said something racist. I may not like racists but I appreciate at least when someone admits their views, after that point they have the option to change if they dont, not my intial problem, wait till they screw up and piss off the wrong person and then they will get what is coming to them.

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