---

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Which makes it a pretty lame example.

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Well - nobody knows WHO started it - what I said.

Therefore - you can't say Whites massacred the Indians for no reason if there is a chance that they started the war.

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{b]konown boundaries and kigdoms/ The terroitory covered by native tribes and their kings was less nown to the european.s It doesn't mean it didn't exist.

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There was no formal territorial claims. Many of the tribes had no way to communicate.

In Europe they had boundaries set up (though they fought over some of them).

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Coming to get money to become rich is not greed. Coming to accept a position as official under the british govenrment is not pride? Being a slave trader and getting rich from that is not greed?

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You don't know the difference between GREED and BUSINESS.

It was the JOB of one of my forefathers to be in a ship dedicated to bringing slaves to the Americas - is he greedy because he wanted money to live off of?

The fact that he had to stay wasn't his fault either.

And the other one for "Pride" was TOLD to go to the Americas. I doubt it was really his choice.

 
The other one that came was spreading his company.

It's called business.

Greed - an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves.

 
How do you know he didn't need the money because he wasn't getting business in Europe?

 

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Its funny how you catch felings over that though.

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Didn't catch feelings Jakey.

Why did YOUR ancestors come to the USA?

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Ok...Then why were you bitching about Hispanics immigrating into your area then? If you have no right to be here in the first place then stop bitching about other ppl being there.

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I'm not bitching about them coming here - but the fact that they are destroying culture that has taken shape here and deliberately forcing others to change to THEIR needs.

This is the year 2008 - do some people never learn?

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Source for "everyone"?
Your slave owners sure didn't want them back. They just want them down, not out ....

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If they couldn't have them as slaves, why would they want them in the USA?
*COUGH* Original KKK *COUGH*

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At the time Lincoln was thinking about it blacks wre still slaves in the South. Not just segregated.

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He didn't want them in the USA at all!

"I will say, then, that I AM NOT NOR HAVE EVER BEEN in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races---that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with White people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the White and black races which will ever FORBID the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the White race."
-Abraham Lincoln, 4th Lincoln-Douglas debate, 18 ix. Collected Works Vol. 3, pp. 145-146.

 
"But for your race among us there could not be a war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or another."
-Lincoln blaming Negroes for the Civil War.

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Yes and seeing human beings as products for business. The sentence " is he greedy because he wanted money to live off of" almost sounds as if your trying to justify slavery by saying it's like a normal Job. Even if you weren't trying to say it you really need to pay attention at what you say. Also Wasn't the reason for enslaving African's were to get rich off of their labor at the expense? Don't tell me these people in the back of their heads didn't know what they were doing was wrong. They were just going over their own inner thoughts with greed and ignorance......

-------
"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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Therefore - you can't say Whites massacred the Indians for no reason if there is a chance that they started the war.

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1. Except for he French-Indian war there were no single war between whites and native americans. There were many different battles. Many of them actually had more to do with the awar of Inidependance the war between the british and the French and the war between England and spain where indian tribes were ued to side with one side or the other.

2. I did not say who started what. You are the one who tries to claim that Indians massacred whites for no reason.

3. Whites DID massacre indians. In their their own native land. Europeans were not native to the land at that point. They grabbed terroritory in order to get its riches and massacred or pushed awaynatives wherever they could. Of course they also brought diseases which decimated the native population.

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There was no formal territorial claims. Many of the tribes had no way to communicate.

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Just because they did not have the concept of owbnership and grabbing of land does not mean they did not have the concept of a right to hunt and harvest from the land and living in harmony with it.

You really know very little about how indian tribes lived and functioned do you?

Here is an example of the hunting ground that did belong to indians before it was revoked.

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/3700/f3762/f3762.htm

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You don't know the difference between GREED and BUSINESS.

It was the JOB of one of my forefathers to be in a ship dedicated to bringing slaves to the Americas - is he greedy because he wanted money to live off of?

---

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The fact that he had to stay wasn't his fault either.

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The other one that came was spreading his company.

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Greed - an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves.

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]Didn't catch feelings Jakey.

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Why did YOUR ancestors come to the USA?

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I am HAPPY and GRATEFUL they did that and I sue ain;t going back to live in Mexico or the Phillippines or even Ireland.

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I'm not bitching about them coming here - but the fact that they are destroying culture that has taken shape here and deliberately forcing others to change to THEIR needs.

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If they couldn't have them as slaves, why would they want them in the USA?
*COUGH* Original KKK *COUGH*

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He didn't want them in the USA at all!

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Show me that "Everyone" agreed with Lincoln.

-------
"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Yes and seeing human beings as products for business. The sentence " is he greedy because he wanted money to live off of" almost sounds as if your trying to justify slavery by saying it's like a normal Job. Even if you weren't trying to say it you really need to pay attention at what you say. Also Wasn't the reason for enslaving African's were to get rich off of their labor at the expense? Don't tell me these people in the back of their heads didn't know what they were doing was wrong. They were just going over their own inner thoughts with greed and ignorance......

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Remember - back then Negroes weren't considered humans.

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1. Except for he French-Indian war there were no single war between whites and native americans. There were many different battles. Many of them actually had more to do with the awar of Inidependance the war between the british and the French and the war between England and spain where indian tribes were ued to side with one side or the other.

2. I did not say who started what. You are the one who tries to claim that Indians massacred whites for no reason.

3. Whites DID massacre indians. In their their own native land. Europeans were not native to the land at that point. They grabbed terroritory in order to get its riches and massacred or pushed awaynatives wherever they could. Of course they also brought diseases which decimated the native population.

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And sure the Europeans may have massacred Amerinds for no reason.

And Amerinds massacred (Or tried) Whites for no reason.

There was a lot of fighting even before Whites came into the Great Plains and "Destroyed" the hunting grounds.

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There known hunting grounds. Just because they were established by word of mouth and yes by their own communication devices did not mean they did not exist. They called themselves nations and some even had kings.

Just because they did not have the concept of owbnership and grabbing of land does not mean they did not have the concept of a right to hunt and harvest from the land and living in harmony with it.

You really know very little about how indian tribes lived and functioned do you?

Here is an example of the hunting ground that did belong to indians before it was revoked.

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/3700/f3762/f3762.htm

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Which made him responsible for the destrcution of the white race..

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It wasn't the fault of the slaves either...

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Why spread it into nonwhite territory?

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Lool you sure did.

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Just to get a job and better life. But I am not the one complaining that they did it.

I am HAPPY and GRATEFUL they did that and I sue ain;t going back to live in Mexico or the Phillippines or even Ireland.

---

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Which is what your British ancestors did to the Indians...

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And ]"everyone" was into the KKK? "everyone" ONLY wanted blacks as slaves?

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Why are you speaking of segregation then? We are speaking of the time of Lincoln where slavery was the issue. Slave owners DID want blacks around as slaves. Not to mention that abolitionists did want blacks around as free men.

Show me that "Everyone" agreed with Lincoln.

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Most Whites - and I can assure you MOST - didn't want Blacks to be considered equals.

Many wanted to send them back to Africa - hence Lincoln being voted into office by majority votes.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

---

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Yes and seeing human beings as products for business. The sentence " is he greedy because he wanted money to live off of" almost sounds as if your trying to justify slavery by saying it's like a normal Job. Even if you weren't trying to say it you really need to pay attention at what you say. Also Wasn't the reason for enslaving African's were to get rich off of their labor at the expense? Don't tell me these people in the back of their heads didn't know what they were doing was wrong. They were just going over their own inner thoughts with greed and ignorance......

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They damn well didn't think it was wrong!  

Remember - back then Negroes weren't considered humans.  

---

1. Except for he French-Indian war there were no single war between whites and native americans. There were many different battles. Many of them actually had more to do with the awar of Inidependance the war between the british and the French and the war between England and spain where indian tribes were ued to side with one side or the other.  

2. I did not say who started what. You are the one who tries to claim that Indians massacred whites for no reason.  

3. Whites DID massacre indians. In their their own native land. Europeans were not native to the land at that point. They grabbed terroritory in order to get its riches and massacred or pushed awaynatives wherever they could. Of course they also brought diseases which decimated the native population.

---

The war itself is an UNDERSTOOD war. There was no formal declarations but we still consider it a war - as people were put on two sides, White and Amerind.  

And sure the Europeans may have massacred Amerinds for no reason.  

And Amerinds massacred (Or tried) Whites for no reason.  

There was a lot of fighting even before Whites came into the Great Plains and "Destroyed" the hunting grounds.  

---

There known hunting grounds. Just because they were established by word of mouth and yes by their own communication devices did not mean they did not exist. They called themselves nations and some even had kings.  

Just because they did not have the concept of owbnership and grabbing of land does not mean they did not have the concept of a right to hunt and harvest from the land and living in harmony with it.  

You really know very little about how indian tribes lived and functioned do you?  

Here is an example of the hunting ground that did belong to indians before it was revoked.  

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/3700/f3762/f3762.htm

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But we were speaking of Africans...  

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Which made him responsible for the destrcution of the white race..

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No it didn't.  
If he brought them to EUROPE he would have.  

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It wasn't the fault of the slaves either...

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Did I say it was?  

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Why spread it into nonwhite territory?

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The land where he did this was bought out by the British and technically part of the British Empire.  

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Lool you sure did.

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Never on the internet.  

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Just to get a job and better life. But I am not the one complaining that they did it.  

I am HAPPY and GRATEFUL they did that and I sue ain;t going back to live in Mexico or the Phillippines or even Ireland.

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Good for you - my family came for other reasons.  
And unlike you I want to go back to the country they came from because nowadays I think it's better than the USA.  

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Which is what your British ancestors did to the Indians...

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How do you know MY ancestors did it?  
Maybe my ancestors just had a normal life over in the USA without any fighting (Though some did fight in the revolutionary war and civil war).  

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And ]"everyone" was into the KKK? "everyone" ONLY wanted blacks as slaves?

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"Everyone" is an exaggeration - but I can assure you at least 1/2 of the USA didn't want Blacks to be a part of it.  

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Why are you speaking of segregation then? We are speaking of the time of Lincoln where slavery was the issue. Slave owners DID want blacks around as slaves. Not to mention that abolitionists did want blacks around as free men.  

Show me that "Everyone" agreed with Lincoln.

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I was speaking about after Blacks were freed.  

Most Whites - and I can assure you MOST - didn't want Blacks to be considered equals.  

Many wanted to send them back to Africa - hence Lincoln being voted into office by majority votes.

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Yes they didn't think they were human but some knew in the back of their minds that something was sinister about it which is why they used religion to justify it.....

Post edited at 10:02 am on Nov. 29, 2008 by Moonscar

-------
"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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Yes they didn't think they were human but some knew in the back of their minds that something was sinister about it which is why they used religion to justify it.....

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I don't agree with slavery at all really - but back then it was common and there was, to them, nothing wrong with it.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

---

---

Yes they didn't think they were human but some knew in the back of their minds that something was sinister about it which is why they used religion to justify it.....

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The "Some" was a minority pretty much.

I don't agree with slavery at all really - but back then it was common and there was, to them, nothing wrong with it.

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There is without a doubt greed in slavery though.

-------
"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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There is without a doubt greed in slavery though.

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There is without a doubt greed in slavery though.

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No there isn't.

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Yes there is......

-------
"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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Yes there is......

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Yes there is......

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Slavery CAN have greed but it's not always associated with it.

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Yes it is..........

-------
"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

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Yes it is..........

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Yes it is..........

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Explain

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Plantation didn't want to let go of their slaves because they were making so much money off of the slave labor. Up in the north though they had industries and wanted the north to do the same but they didn't want to let go.......

-------
"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud

---

Plantation didn't want to let go of their slaves because they were making so much money off of the slave labor. Up in the north though they had industries and wanted the north to do the same but they didn't want to let go.......

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So they're greedy?

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

---

---

Plantation didn't want to let go of their slaves because they were making so much money off of the slave labor. Up in the north though they had industries and wanted the north to do the same but they didn't want to let go.......

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So - they wanted to have money to support a family.

So they're greedy?

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They made more than enough money to support their family, maybe even enough to support it 3 times over. If your a plantation owner and you flourish in a nice house with nice food while the slaves are treated in the worst way in their little cabins without efficient cloths, food etc. isn't that greedy?

-------
"When you do things right.
People won't be sure you've done anything at all" ~ God like space cloud