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I've been looking at your site some more!

Code:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Ohrdruf/index.html

 
It seems to be a very well documented event with lots of pics etc. First thing I noticed is that in all the pictures of living people - I don't see 1 single person who appears to be the slightest bit "starved". They actually look in pretty good shape to me. The text even says that the vast majority of the dead were victims of Typhus.  

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A typhus epidemic had started in Germany in December 1944 and had quickly spread to all the camps as prisoners were transferred from one camp to another. Half of all the prisoners who died in the German camps died between December 1944 and the end of June 1945. Yet the survivors of Ohrdruf claimed that all the bodies found at the camp were those of prisoners who had been deliberately killed or starved to death.

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I also learned that at the Ohrdruf camp there existed an "outdoor crematory" of the same design that is said to of been used at Treblinka - Elevated Railroad tracks. There is even a picture of the thing. The most curious thing is the statements by prisoners made in connection with this.

 

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3 weeks ago the commandant of the camp was ordered to destroy all of the evidence of the mass killings in this place and he sent several hundred of these inmates out on the detail to exhume these bodies and have them burned. However, there wasn't time enough to burn all of the 3200 and only 1606 were actually burned and the balance were still buried under a light film of dirt.

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It would seem that it had taken them 3 weeks to destroy approximately 1600 bodies and there was no "Total destruction so that not a single trace remained" as we hear from the "death camps". There is even a picture showing what remains when bodies are burned in this way.

Maybe they should have taken a training trip to Treblinka. We all "know" that Treblinka could destroy 20 thousand bodies a day using the same method. I also noticed that with only 3 weeks of operation, the rails are buckled and twisted  I would imagine by the heat. How can that be? The "grate" as described at Treblinka operated 24hrs a day for months. Maybe they had better quality steel in the East? =P

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blah blah blah propaganda and lies. The Nazi's admitted it themselves man.

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blah blah blah propaganda and lies. The Nazi's admitted it themselves man.

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Many extremely exaggerated how many they "Killed"

People have to MAKE THINGS UP to "Prove" that everything is true.

And what about the witnesses breaking down and crying at Zundel trial, admitting they're bare-faced liars?

What about all the other things the Nazis "Admitted" that aren't accounted for fact anymore?

And you think they ALL said that it happened?

What about Hans Lammers? Lammers was Chief of the Reich Chancellery and personally close to Himmler and Hitler.

Lammers said that Himmler told him the "Final Solution" was Jewish evacuation from Germany - NOT genocide.

When asked, "when did you first learn that five million Jews had been exterminated," Lammers replied that it was "here" at the Nuremberg trials!

Herman Goring also told the court that the first time he had heard anything about a holocaust was, "right here at Nuremberg!"

EDIT:

Propaganda and lies? I used an exterminationist source that Jakey gave me!

I quoted DIRECTLY from the text to find the truth hidden beneath the lies!

The funny thing is you can disprove much of the Holocaust using the "Sources" that people use to try to prove it all!

Post edited at 12:41 pm on Dec. 11, 2008 by kidd rune

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"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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Oh - Jakey - in that link you gave me about Patton:

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And yes ordhuf was still called a murder camp

And to your suffestion about Patton

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He was forced to maybe?

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The guys could NOT be shut up. He would go ona nd on and open his trap about what he wanted and they had the hardest time making him to be diplomatic and they completely failed.

So him calling it a MURDER camp was his own words.

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Why would Paul Rassinier - someone that suffered persecution under the Nazi regime and was put in [alleged] concentration camps be a holocaust revisionist (or denier if that word makes you feel better)?

Why would Joseph Burg - a Jew that was put in concentration camps - deny the holocaust?

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Alright - pretend everything I said was true. Just pretend for a minute.

Pretend that many people lied about the Holocaust.
Pretend that you somehow went back and time and FOUND OUT that there was no mass murder.

Now - with all that - what would your answer to that quesiton be?

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Just think about it: why would millions and millions of people LIE about their family and friends being gassed if they were NOT?

To get back at Nazis? Most Nazis were prisoners anyway by then. many were even shot in reprisals without even a trial as most defeated men have been since wars have been going on.  

To destry Germany? Had already been done by then. The whole place was in total ruins by 1945.

To get Israel? If Americans and British were willing to lie along WITH them then they would have gotten it even WITHOUT the lie.

Even WITHOUT gassing the concentration camp and persecution was enough to justify a country for Jews in most ppl's minds.

Why would Catholics and Protestants testify WITH jews that Catholics and Protestants and Jewa were being mass murdered in those camps? What would THEY gain from it?

Why would Capitalists and fierce anti-communists go along and lie WITH communists?

Why would priest and nuns and clergymen testify ALONG with rabbis about the atrocities and massacres in the camps and LIE about them?

Where did the 6 million people who did NOT die go? They were not found in the US. They were not found in Palestine. They were not found in China. Did they go to Mars or Venus?

Think about all that for a minute and tell me.

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Except the typhus epidemic started LATER than most of the gassing and exterminations.

And yes ordhuf was still called a murder camp

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That's why they shaved the heads of Jews - Typhus is brought by lice.

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And to your suffestion about Patton

LMFAO Its obvious you don't know fucking shit about Patton!  

The guys could NOT be shut up. He would go ona nd on and open his trap about what he wanted and they had the hardest time making him to be diplomatic and they completely failed.

So him calling it a MURDER camp was his own words.

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A typhus epidemic had started in Germany in December 1944 and had quickly spread to all the camps as prisoners were transferred from one camp to another. Half of all the prisoners who died in the German camps died between December 1944 and the end of June 1945. Yet the survivors of Ohrdruf claimed that all the bodies found at the camp were those of prisoners who had been deliberately killed or starved to death.

Ohrdruf was a small sub-camp of Buchenwald and it did not have a crematorium with ovens to dispose of the bodies.

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Because they were brainwashed into it maybe?

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How could those two out of [allegedly] over 10 million be different from the rest?

Didn't they see all the gassing and burning and evil Nazis?

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That I went back into a parallel universe different than this one.

Just think about it: why would millions and millions of people LIE about their family and friends being gassed if they were NOT?

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Someone said their grandpa was gassed - and I asked "How do you know?" and they said that the British army told their family after the war.

The British saw it? What about all of the evidence the Nazis destroyed - they left it for the British for that one person?

Or maybe they just SAID IT. (I'm not even sure if they had a Grandpa in the war)

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To get back at Nazis? Most Nazis were prisoners anyway by then. many were even shot in reprisals without even a trial as most defeated men have been since wars have been going on.  

To destry Germany? Had already been done by then. The whole place was in total ruins by 1945.

To get Israel? If Americans and British were willing to lie along WITH them then they would have gotten it even WITHOUT the lie.

Even WITHOUT gassing the concentration camp and persecution was enough to justify a country for Jews in most ppl's minds.

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The Americans and Britons FOUGHT A WAR with Germans.
You think they'd take their side?

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Why would Catholics and Protestants testify WITH jews that Catholics and Protestants and Jewa were being mass murdered in those camps? What would THEY gain from it?

Why would Capitalists and fierce anti-communists go along and lie WITH communists?

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And there are Christian, Catholic, and Communist Holocaust "Deniers" too.

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Why would priest and nuns and clergymen testify ALONG with rabbis about the atrocities and massacres in the camps and LIE about them?

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Where did the 6 million people who did NOT die go? They were not found in the US. They were not found in Palestine. They were not found in China. Did they go to Mars or Venus?

Think about all that for a minute and tell me.

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There is NO perfect account of how many Jews were alive in in 1930s and 1940s.

The World Almanac for 1947, in quoting figures supplies by the American Jewish Committee states that the world Jewish population in 1939 was 15,688,259. The New York Times of February 22, 1948, stated that the world Jewish population ranged from 15,600,000 to 18,700,000, excluding some 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine.

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Kidd Rune, you're such an idiot. Obviously you're very convinced, and nothing anyone here says is going to make you change your mind.

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But really. Do you think the tattoos on my grandfather's wrists were put there because it was stylish?

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Not to mention the horrible stories he tells. Obviously you don't know my grandpa, but I do. I know he is an honest person, and would never DREAM make up anything so horrible.

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He can hardly talk about it, just for sake of remembering. I guess my eight great aunts and uncles just disappeared after being brought to Auschwitz, and the death records are nothing.

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Pretty convincing - right?

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"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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Holocaust deniers are make me smile a little. They remind me of the young earth creationists I debate. So determined, they think that they can research the issue for a few hours, read some articles written by conspiracy theorists and refute a mountain of evidence that could fills libraries.

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The evidence is there, you just have to be willing to open up a book and not declare every photo a fake, every study inconclusive and every testimony a fraud. Not to mention, you have to hold your own sides arguments and evidence to the same standards.

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All I find is contradictions, holes, and flat out lies.

And I do hold them to the same standards - but it's entirely different. I'm not trying to prove that events happened - I'm trying to state that mass gassings and mass killings didn't really happen - and I refute and look at the "Evidence" twice to see why.

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If the population estimates of several almanacs and books are inaccurate when they estimate a 1/3 decrease in Jewish population(prewar and post war), why do you accept an inferior estimate proposed by another source?

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Next - I would tell you that the definition of "Jew" isn't perfect. What IS a Jew? Is it a religion? Is it a race? A nation?
Can you stop being a Jew? If your dad is a Jew and your mom isn't - are you still a Jew?

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I'll answer that for you: Confirmation bias.

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What about the Jews in the Zundel trials that ADMIT they were liars?

Or the absurd claims such as Jew soap, Jew-skin lamps, steam chambers, stomp-aborting Jewish pregnant women, etc.

What about the dropping Auschwitz numbers? From millions to less than 100 thousand.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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Exterminationists give me the laughs!
They see one picture and they believe that the caption is the epitome of truth - with no further doubts necessary.

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I've read books by Jews in the Holocaust (Such as 4 perfect pebbles, a lot of Anne Franks diary, I'm reading Night...) and I've read exterminationist claims.

All I find is contradictions, holes, and flat out lies.

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That's a real impressive list. A book written by a 13 year old girl is surely going to be the most accurate account of the holocaust and is going to provide you with the best evidence availible.

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And I do hold them to the same standards - but it's entirely different. I'm not trying to prove that events happened - I'm trying to state that mass gassings and mass killings didn't really happen - and I refute and look at the "Evidence" twice to see why.

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I would like to see your 1/3 sources FIRST of all.

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Next - I would tell you that the definition of "Jew" isn't perfect. What IS a Jew? Is it a religion? Is it a race? A nation?
Can you stop being a Jew? If your dad is a Jew and your mom isn't - are you still a Jew?

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The word "Jew" has many definitions depending when and where you are in history. Surely, such an expert on the topic would know that words change considering the fact that you stated a definition change of words rendered written evidence of the holocaust useless.

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Are you saying exterminationists don't have the same faults?

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What about the Jews in the Zundel trials that ADMIT they were liars?

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Or the absurd claims such as Jew soap, Jew-skin lamps, steam chambers, stomp-aborting Jewish pregnant women, etc.

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What about the dropping Auschwitz numbers? From millions to less than 100 thousand.

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Holocaust deniers are very interesting to, they see the same picture and yell PHOTOSHOP.

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That's a real impressive list. A book written by a 13 year old girl is surely going to be the most accurate account of the holocaust and is going to provide you with the best evidence availible.

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You have both failed to refute and examine the evidence. Simply stating the evidence is insufficient does mean it is insufficient. For example, if a millions of eye witnesses claim something and you state they are all simply lying. Then you are generating a burden of proof far greater then you think. You would have to provide a sufficient evidence why millions of honest hard working, educated individuals many of whom made more money then they would ever be compensated would invent the mass deaths of millions of family members that didn't exist or who died prior to the holocaust.

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An eye-witness account isn't proof - and the fact that there are accounts claiming such discrepant "Facts" it's hard to find who is lying and who isn't.

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Surely, you've seen the estimates, having researched this so extensively?

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The word "Jew" has many definitions depending when and where you are in history. Surely, such an expert on the topic would know that words change considering the fact that you stated a definition change of words rendered written evidence of the holocaust useless.

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I wish everytime I discuss this issue that I am mistaken and that the holocaust was just a big myth. I wouldn't ever want something like the holocaust to have happened or individuals to be punished based on lies.

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That was me in middle school. I doubted the Holocaust in 7th grade but never payed much attention to it.

My teachers couldn't answer all my questions so they referred me to Holocaust books. Then I found out someone was lying - either the books or my teachers - or even both.

I actually looked into the subject - and I turned to the exterminationist view again. I debated with revisionists but I never did find proof.

The majority of arguments you exterminationists use I've used before.

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I've read some of the statements brought into question by Holocaust deniers, I find nothing that effect the credibility of the Holocaust. Can you provide me with the statements you find questionable and a short explanation why that refutes the holocaust?

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Point being?

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The same Nazis that said they killed 5 million Jews at Auschwitz are used as "Evidence" but the Nazis that claim they knew nothing of a genocide are silenced and never heard of.

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What about them? Can you provide a detailed reasoning why to 100,000 estimate is much better than the millions estimate? Surely, you're not doing what the "exterminationists" are doing and just blindly accepting one value over the other?

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But a pile of dead Jews doesn't really prove anything.

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Tell that to the rest of your exterminationist friends.

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I can't say that they are lying - but then again you can't say that they're telling the truth.

An eye-witness account isn't proof - and the fact that there are accounts claiming such discrepant "Facts" it's hard to find who is lying and who isn't.

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I would like to see your 1/3 sources.
Are you running away from it?

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It implies that population estimates are not all accurate - and I doubt there are accurate statistics.  

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It doesn't matter if you WISH it didn't happen - it's if you think that maybe it DIDN'T.  

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That was me in middle school. I doubted the Holocaust in 7th grade but never payed much attention to it.

My teachers couldn't answer all my questions so they referred me to Holocaust books. Then I found out someone was lying - either the books or my teachers - or even both.

I actually looked into the subject - and I turned to the exterminationist view again. I debated with revisionists but I never did find proof.

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 Give me a specific subject - the Holocaust has so many claims and so many accounts - on both sides, you have to choose one in particular. One camp maybe - or one thing happening in one camp.

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The same Nazis that said they killed 5 million Jews at Auschwitz are used as "Evidence" but the Nazis that claim they knew nothing of a genocide are silenced and never heard of.

I don't know how many died - but I do know that the multi-million estimates are way off - due to the impossibilities and disproven "Facts" that supported it.

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First off, I would like to note we aren't dealing in proofs, we are dealing in evidence. Proof is for mathemathics.

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If you think so little of those books, why do you read them instead of the macro accounts?

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Remember we are dealing in evidence. Eye witness accounts are evidence, especially when there are photos to affirm what they claim.

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In reality - people will lie if nobody is there to combat their lies or care. They exaggerate for benefit.
Hell - maybe they even THOUGHT it was true - when it wasn't. Maybe the Kapos created these gassing stories to keep control of the camps.

And if you find a photo of someone being gassed, please show me.

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I'm simply seeing how well you have researched the evidence for the holocaust. I would have to give you failing marks on your research. You started with the conspiracy theory, ran with it and didn't research anything else. Typical pre-college behavior.

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Now you're demeaning me at the same time!

Kudos to you!

But you still have to find those sources.

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Then why do you cite statistics as if they are in your favor if there are no accurate statistics?

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It really isn't evidence of anything - nor did I imply that it was.

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I think it absolutely did.

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If you don't do that - you're exhibiting a biased view. You're showing that nothing will make you think otherwise and it will stay at that - regardless of lack of evidence in your claims.

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Just exactly how old are you?

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Things that the Jews lied about at the Zundel trials. What statements significantly altered the generally accepted holocaust?

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What impossibilities specifically?  

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Holocaust deniers are make me smile a little. They remind me of the young earth creationists I debate.

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Confirmation bias.

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They have video clips of the thousands of dead bodies in pits and the Nazi death camp guards standing there being condemned for it by the allies over a loud speaker.

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Bud2400 was saying thats what KR is all about really.

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Remember - Bud doesn't believe this holocaust bullshit either.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"