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Um, yeah, it's not the teenager's parents' job to raise their grandkid.

And the last line of my post addresses your argument; they probably should think about what's best for the child they have to raise by way of adoption. The whole point of my post is that they DO have another option. I'd highly encourage adoption. They shouldn't make the decision to keep the baby unless they can support it, it's pure logic.

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Your mistake is that you automatically make the assumption that all parents are unwilling and unable to raise their grandchildren.  Are some?  Yes, and in those situations I agree that the pregnant mother should have some financial means to support the child independently.

However, there are MANY parents out there who are willing to accept their children, despite the pregnancy.  There are many that would rather know that their child and grandchild are safe at home, where they can support them.  I don't think you can make the argument that moving out is always best, because it's not.  Further, I don't think you can say that adoption is the only right choice, because there are a number of situations and circumstances that would allow for a teenage mother to raise a child successfully.

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Quote: from Let Love In at 8:11 pm on June 21, 2009

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...When they have the baby, and then continue to live with their mommy and daddy.    

 I mean, if they want to keep the kid, kudos. But if they make that decision, they should realize all of the responsibility that comes with it. Go out into the real world, get a job, and rent an apartment. Having a baby is a very grown-up thing to do, it's not quite the same as playing house in your mom's basement. I know a girl who's seventeen and has two babies, each with a different father, and she still lives at home and totally mooches off her parents. What a loser.  

 And if you're not ready for that kind of responsibility yet, luckily, you've got two options: abortion or adoption.  

 /end rant

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1. First off, if the teen is under 18, they are more than unlikely to go and rent their own apartment. Yeah, they might go get a job to pay for the baby and shit, but not for the apartment.  

2. Adoption? What's the fucking point in having the baby if you give the adoption option. Adoption will actually cost you more to get than actually having a baby.

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There is such a thing as legal emancipation. And I actually have a couple of friends who have done just that and rent an apartment. They're 17.

Adoption doesn't cost you that much money, the adoptees even usually cover all hospital fees, actually. And we were talking about what was best in terms of the baby, not personal gain.

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I quote John Lennon,
"I don't believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me."

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Quote: from greatescape at 7:14 pm on June 21, 2009

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How does that make sense?  If living with their parents is logically the best thing for them and the baby, why does it matter?  Why would you move out just to "look like a grown up" if that's not what's best for the child that you have to raise.  

 Moving out doesn't prove anything, aside from some semblance of financial stability.  Making responsible decisions DOES prove that you're mature and somewhat grown up.

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Um, yeah, it's not the teenager's parents' job to raise their grandkid.

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It is the teenager's parent's job to raise their own kid. If that kid has a kid of her own, is it really that crazy to think that the parents should help their child with raising it?

Why doom the kid? If the parents are willing, all the better. Better to have two people who have already raised a kid help out, then to leave the kid in day care all day while the two parents of it go out and work, and come home to a shitty little studio.

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And the last line of my post addresses your argument; they probably should think about what's best for the child they have to raise by way of adoption. The whole point of my post is that they DO have another option. I'd highly encourage adoption. They shouldn't make the decision to keep the baby unless they can support it, it's pure logic.

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To some people, having a child is sometimes a bit above logic...some people don't like the idea of handing the child that they just birthed over to other people.

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

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There is such a thing as legal emancipation. And I actually have a couple of friends who have done just that and rent an apartment. They're 17.

Adoption doesn't cost you that much money, the adoptees even usually cover all hospital fees, actually. And we were talking about what was best in terms of the baby, not personal gain.

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Quote: from Let Love In at 7:20 pm on June 21, 2009

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Um, yeah, it's not the teenager's parents' job to raise their grandkid.  

 And the last line of my post addresses your argument; they probably should think about what's best for the child they have to raise by way of adoption. The whole point of my post is that they DO have another option. I'd highly encourage adoption. They shouldn't make the decision to keep the baby unless they can support it, it's pure logic.

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Your mistake is that you automatically make the assumption that all parents are unwilling and unable to raise their grandchildren. Are some? Yes, and in those situations I agree that the pregnant mother should have some financial means to support the child independently.

However, there are MANY parents out there who are willing to accept their children, despite the pregnancy. There are many that would rather know that their child and grandchild are safe at home, where they can support them. I don't think you can make the argument that moving out is always best, because it's not. Further, I don't think you can say that adoption is the only right choice, because there are a number of situations and circumstances that would allow for a teenage mother to raise a child successfully.

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Who said anything about not accepting your daughter if she got pregnant? Certainly not me, I'd love my kid unconditionally. But there is such a thing as tough love. Sometimes I think that too many teen mothers think that keeping the baby is their god-given right (which, technically, it is), when they don't understand that they will be responsible for another living being, and all that goes with it.

I'd want my daughter to understand just exactly what she'd be giving up by deciding to keep the baby, which, for most parents, is money, time, and their social life. I just don't think the lesson would work as well if she was living in my basement, eating my food, and leaving her baby with me while she goes to school/whatever.

Now, there are many variables here, and many "happy mediums". I get that, I just firmly believe that you should not bring a baby into the world with the intent of keeping it unless you are ready to take full responsibility for the well being and care of that child. Being a parent is a big responsibility, that's why many people wait until they're in their late twenties and settled down to reproduce. I would say that taking care of that baby by providing it with shelter, food, etc, is something that an adult who's made the decision to keep that baby should be able to do. Even if the teen pays rent to the parents, although, granted, that's one giant step closer, it's inevitable that certain things will continue to depend on the "grandparents", and it's an altogether different experience raising a baby completely on your own.

And you're right, adoption isn't for everyone. But if a teen isn't able to provide for their child if they keep it and isn't comfortable with either adoption or abortion, then frankly, they shouldn't be having sex.

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I quote John Lennon,
"I don't believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me."

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Quote: from White Fate at 7:22 pm on June 21, 2009

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Quote: from Let Love In at 8:11 pm on June 21, 2009

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...When they have the baby, and then continue to live with their mommy and daddy.

  I mean, if they want to keep the kid, kudos. But if they make that decision, they should realize all of the responsibility that comes with it. Go out into the real world, get a job, and rent an apartment. Having a baby is a very grown-up thing to do, it's not quite the same as playing house in your mom's basement. I know a girl who's seventeen and has two babies, each with a different father, and she still lives at home and totally mooches off her parents. What a loser.

  And if you're not ready for that kind of responsibility yet, luckily, you've got two options: abortion or adoption.

  /end rant

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 1. First off, if the teen is under 18, they are more than unlikely to go and rent their own apartment. Yeah, they might go get a job to pay for the baby and shit, but not for the apartment.

 2. Adoption? What's the fucking point in having the baby if you give the adoption option. Adoption will actually cost you more to get than actually having a baby.

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There is such a thing as legal emancipation. And I actually have a couple of friends who have done just that and rent an apartment. They're 17.

Adoption doesn't cost you that much money, the adoptees even usually cover all hospital fees, actually. And we were talking about what was best in terms of the baby, not personal gain.

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Quote: from Let Love In at 5:27 pm on June 21, 2009

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Quote: from White Fate at 7:22 pm on June 21, 2009

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Quote: from Let Love In at 8:11 pm on June 21, 2009

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...When they have the baby, and then continue to live with their mommy and daddy.      

  I mean, if they want to keep the kid, kudos. But if they make that decision, they should realize all of the responsibility that comes with it. Go out into the real world, get a job, and rent an apartment. Having a baby is a very grown-up thing to do, it's not quite the same as playing house in your mom's basement. I know a girl who's seventeen and has two babies, each with a different father, and she still lives at home and totally mooches off her parents. What a loser.    

  And if you're not ready for that kind of responsibility yet, luckily, you've got two options: abortion or adoption.    

  /end rant

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  1. First off, if the teen is under 18, they are more than unlikely to go and rent their own apartment. Yeah, they might go get a job to pay for the baby and shit, but not for the apartment.    

  2. Adoption? What's the fucking point in having the baby if you give the adoption option. Adoption will actually cost you more to get than actually having a baby.

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 There is such a thing as legal emancipation. And I actually have a couple of friends who have done just that and rent an apartment. They're 17.  

 Adoption doesn't cost you that much money, the adoptees even usually cover all hospital fees, actually. And we were talking about what was best in terms of the baby, not personal gain.

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Emancipation varies greatly from state-to-state. Here I could only be emancipated if I could prove that I could provide for myself and my daughter AND that I am being abused.

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I'm gonna go ahead and not waste the time to double check that, but either way, I didn't start this topic to get into technicalities about emancipation laws. In that case, I suppose if the girl was young enough when she got knocked up, there would be no option other than paying the parents rent. That situation is in the minority, though.

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I quote John Lennon,
"I don't believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me."

It's great if you live in an area where getting even a min wage job will pay your bills. Guess what? Not everyone does.

I still live at home and I'm a little tired of being told that I'm some unmotivated loser because of it. The rent in my area is currently $900-$1200 for a bachelor apartment, that doesn't include utilities. And it's been proven that full-time, full-year employment in my province sadly doesn't even guarantee that you'll be above the poverty line because the cost of living is so ridiculously high. Even working full time I would NOT be able to afford spending over $1000 a month on an apartment to move out right now.

Does that mean that my mother raises my son? Hardly. We actually go days without seeing her. She never bought a single pack of diapers or bottle or nipple or anything. I pay for my and my son's things, we just live in the same house.

Grow up and inform yourself. Moving out isn't so simple. Sometimes you have to get an education first and that takes time.

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Holly.
Mama to Hunter Kai
Still missing you, LML. (1941-2007). ♥
"Nothing is worth more than this day."

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I'm gonna go ahead and not waste the time to double check that, but either way, I didn't start this topic to get into technicalities about emancipation laws. In that case, I suppose if the girl was young enough when she got knocked up, there would be no option other than paying the parents rent. That situation is in the minority, though.

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It's very very hard to afford a place to live even without a baby to look after, especially in the crap economy we're in right now.  Even college graduates who don't have babies to raise are opting to go back home.  There's really nothing wrong with it and frankly, none of your business.

Post edited at 10:09 pm on June 21, 2009 by SimplisticComplexity

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...

And I absolutely positively couldn't disagree more with the point made that if you live at home with your parents then the parents raise the baby, what a load of tripe. It's only that way if the parent allows it to be that way.

My mother got pregnant at 16 and wasn't old enough to marry my father yet so she had to live at home with her parents and she says that it was like living on her own anyway, because she made sure of it. She paid for everything herself, and did everything for my brother herself and as soon as she was old enough she got married and moved out.

So age can be restrictive in terms of where you're going to live or how much you can earn, but it certainly in restrictive in your ability to be a good parent.

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Week in and week out,
Your lucky charms will always let you down,
Maybe next week we'll see,
Maybe

That is most certainly not a minority occurance. I graduated at 16 and was pregnant at 17 and still couldn't be emancipated until two days after my 18th birthday. Most states won't even consider underage emancipation.

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Enrique's (21 months) and Chase's (2 months) mommy www.myspace.com/Chaya77