|
Until you sign up you can't do much. Yes, it's free.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 | / / / Viewing Topic
|  |
| Choice |
Votes |
Percent |
|
| 1/4 Point |
11 |
36% |
|
| libertarian Free Will |
6 |
20% |
|
| Soft Determinism |
5 |
16% |
|
| Hard Determinism |
5 |
16% |
|
| Other (please explain) |
3 |
10% |
|
| Vote Now! |
30 Votes Cast |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 LiveWire Humor
|
|
Prince o palities
Who's your daddy?
 Patron
Support Leader
|
     
-------
"It is the wrong question to ask, and therefore, as one might expect, has
no right answer." - Hans von Campenhausen
This is the philosophy of my life.
|
|
|
SpM
Unprincipled
Patron
|
Quote: from Prince o palities at 6:19 pm on July 9, 2009
 Like I said, I don't really understand the lines being drawn. Free will works in that we choose our own actions; no one chooses them for us. The above may be the shortest explanation I have ever given for any belief I've ever been asked to describe. It should illustrate how foreign I feel in these waters. 
If that is the extent to which you think we are free, then you are a compatibilist. The compatibilist position is generally that, while our characters, thoughts, and actions are all determined by causal chains stretching back far before our birth, and while we can never do other than what we do, we are still free in the sense that our actions are determined by our characters and thoughts and not the conscious manipulation of anyone else. The libertarian holds that our actions are not inevitable - that we could have done otherwise in the past, and that there exist multiple possibilities in the future.
|
10:29 am on July 9, 2009 | Joined: Feb. 2007 | Days Active: 662
Join to learn more about SpM Scotland, United Kingdom | Posts: 27,939 | Points: 39,484
|
|
| |
|
|
SpM
Unprincipled
Patron
|
Quote: from Forever Angel at 6:19 pm on July 9, 2009
Quote: from SpM at 12:12 pm on July 9, 2009
Moridin, I wouldn't bother. Debating determinism with Forever Angel is like beating your head against a brick wall. It'll quickly degenerate into bickering over semantics, and 20 pages later you discover she's been a compatibilist all along, but won't couch it in those terms for reasons unknown.
No. It's not about semantics. That seems to be a common dodge for a lot of people when they either use words that they don't know the meaning of or when they've assigned a meaning of their own to a word.
You believe in the particular conception of free will that is compatible with determinism. Therefore, you are a compatibilist. Simply saying that you believe in free will is technically true and very misleading. Hence the interminable debates about nothing you always inspire in these threads.
|
10:33 am on July 9, 2009 | Joined: Feb. 2007 | Days Active: 662
Join to learn more about SpM Scotland, United Kingdom | Posts: 27,939 | Points: 39,484
|
|
| |
|
|
Prince o palities
Who's your daddy?
Patron
Support Leader
|
You couldn't have told me what I thought before I voted in the poll?
-------
"It is the wrong question to ask, and therefore, as one might expect, has
no right answer." - Hans von Campenhausen
This is the philosophy of my life.
|
|
|
Moridin
Guru
 Ad Free
|
More specifically, libertarian free will has to hold that our moral character, our knowledge about the world, our feelings, our thoughts, our personality and so on cannot have any influence on or causal connection with our actions whatsoever. If this was the case, we would be living in an actual nightmare where nothing we do is a result of who we are and we could not be held accountable for our actions. Luckily, our actions and decisions are a result / is influenced by who we are.
-------
"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)
|
|
|
Forever Angel
Pectus Pectoris Memor
 Sustainer
|
Quote: from SpM at 12:33 pm on July 9, 2009
Quote: from Forever Angel at 6:19 pm on July 9, 2009
Quote: from SpM at 12:12 pm on July 9, 2009
Moridin, I wouldn't bother. Debating determinism with Forever Angel is like beating your head against a brick wall. It'll quickly degenerate into bickering over semantics, and 20 pages later you discover she's been a compatibilist all along, but won't couch it in those terms for reasons unknown.
No. It's not about semantics. That seems to be a common dodge for a lot of people when they either use words that they don't know the meaning of or when they've assigned a meaning of their own to a word.
You believe in the particular conception of free will that is compatible with determinism. Therefore, you are a compatibilist. Simply saying that you believe in free will is technically true and very misleading. Hence the interminable debates about nothing you always inspire in these threads.
From your post to Prince; I don't believe that every choice I make, every action I take, springs from a causal chain that started before I was born. I don't believe that all of the things I have done or chosen are the only things I could have done or chosen. Influence, yes, determine, no. The "interminable debates about nothing" are usually caused by those who simply do not understand how I can believe that. Much like Moridin cannot understand how people can believe in God.
-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
Bohica
|
|
|
SpM
Unprincipled
Patron
|
Influence what?
|
10:54 am on July 9, 2009 | Joined: Feb. 2007 | Days Active: 662
Join to learn more about SpM Scotland, United Kingdom | Posts: 27,939 | Points: 39,484
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
SpM
Unprincipled
Patron
|
If you think that prior events only influence your choosing process, there must be another element to that process which does the determining. What is it, and how does it work?
|
11:01 am on July 9, 2009 | Joined: Feb. 2007 | Days Active: 662
Join to learn more about SpM Scotland, United Kingdom | Posts: 27,939 | Points: 39,484
|
|
| |
|
|
Forever Angel
Pectus Pectoris Memor
Sustainer
|
Quote: from Prince o palities at 12:36 pm on July 9, 2009
You couldn't have told me what I thought before I voted in the poll?
Lol... yes, that would help, wouldn't it.
-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
Bohica
|
|
|
Forever Angel
Pectus Pectoris Memor
Sustainer
|
Quote: from SpM at 1:01 pm on July 9, 2009
If you think that prior events only influence your choosing process, there must be another element to that process which does the determining. What is it, and how does it work?
The circumstances/situation that currently exists at the time of the action/decision/behavior?
-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
Bohica
|
|
|
SpM
Unprincipled
Patron
|
The circumstances that currently exist are the result of circumstances that previously existed. There is still nothing that is not determined.
|
11:09 am on July 9, 2009 | Joined: Feb. 2007 | Days Active: 662
Join to learn more about SpM Scotland, United Kingdom | Posts: 27,939 | Points: 39,484
|
|
| |
|
|
Forever Angel
Pectus Pectoris Memor
Sustainer
|
Quote: from SpM at 1:09 pm on July 9, 2009
The circumstances that currently exist are the result of circumstances that previously existed. There is still nothing that is not determined.
An automobile accident on the freeway is the result of circumstances that existed before I was born?
-------
"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
Bohica
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Looking for something else?
|
|
|
|
|
|
| / / / Viewing Topic | |
|
278 users online 
224151 members 
You have 1 new message.
