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 LiveWire Humor
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jakelong
Swami
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That is pretty sad man in so many ways. Think about it this way 1. Sure your great grandparents and grandparents suffered because of what was done in WWII but that was more than 60 years ago! Germans apologized for it and made amends a lot. You got to learn to start forgiving and forgetting and moving on Japanese did a lot of bad things to some members of my family. I had one uncle disappear and never came back because he was fighting against the occupation in the phillippines. We got some pretty bad stories in the phillippines from the whole Japanese thing. But I dont go around carrying bad thoughts against Japanese. To me its a bit of old history. The japanese now are different. Some are cool some are stuck up but like everyone else mostly. 2. we're a new generation. We dont have to carry the old grudges around because it wont bring anyone back anyway. The best is to just reach out to the other guys and try to rebuild things. Most germans and japanese are just busy living and not carrrying hate around. So might as well do the same. 3. Not all germans (and not all japanese) did bad stuff. Most were just regular soldiers drafted in a war. A few did really bad things and we dont have to like THOSE particular ppl. But the rest of the ppl was not into all that. many were just brainwashed into it and had no idea about all the horrors done in their name.
------- "Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin' That's how we be survivin'" - BEP
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4:19 pm on July 26, 2009 | Joined: Aug. 2005 | Days Active: 785 Join to learn more about jakelong California, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 14,611 | Points: 25,889
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Siucra
Enlightened One
Sustainer
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Quote: from jakelong at 12:19 am on July 27, 2009
That is pretty sad man in so many ways. Think about it this way 1. Sure your great grandparents and grandparents suffered because of what was done in WWII but that was more than 60 years ago! Germans apologized for it and made amends a lot. You got to learn to start forgiving and forgetting and moving on Japanese did a lot of bad things to some members of my family. I had one uncle disappear and never came back because he was fighting against the occupation in the phillippines. We got some pretty bad stories in the phillippines from the whole Japanese thing. But I dont go around carrying bad thoughts against Japanese. To me its a bit of old history. The japanese now are different. Some are cool some are stuck up but like everyone else mostly. 2. we're a new generation. We dont have to carry the old grudges around because it wont bring anyone back anyway. The best is to just reach out to the other guys and try to rebuild things. Most germans and japanese are just busy living and not carrrying hate around. So might as well do the same. 3. Not all germans (and not all japanese) did bad stuff. Most were just regular soldiers drafted in a war. A few did really bad things and we dont have to like THOSE particular ppl. But the rest of the ppl was not into all that. many were just brainwashed into it and had no idea about all the horrors done in their name. 
This. To hold grudges 60 years on is ridiculous.Not every German was a Nazi and not all Nazis carried the same beliefs as Hitler.WWII is not as black and white as it's painted out to be.A solider must carry out his orders whilst in battle,regardless of his own political stance.Not all Germans were evil like their dictator. There is no reason to hate the Germans in this day in age.The past is in the past.End of.
------- Tir gan teanga,Tir gan aimn !Too beige.
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Forgot My Name
Enlightened One
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So Germans should hate Americas, the British, and the Russians, right? The Allies did more damage to Germany than Germany did to your pathetic country.
------- "We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible situations."
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jakelong
Swami
Ad Free
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Quote: from Forgot My Name at 12:00 am on July 27, 2009
The Allies did more damage to Germany than Germany did to your pathetic country.
And pathetic neo nazis dont help either.
------- "Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin' That's how we be survivin'" - BEP
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3:28 am on July 27, 2009 | Joined: Aug. 2005 | Days Active: 785 Join to learn more about jakelong California, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 14,611 | Points: 25,889
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Forgot My Name
Enlightened One
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Quote: from jakelong at 6:28 am on July 27, 2009
Quote: from Forgot My Name at 12:00 am on July 27, 2009
The Allies did more damage to Germany than Germany did to your pathetic country.
And pathetic neo nazis dont help either.
I'm not a Neo-Nazi.
------- "We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible situations."
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kidd rune
Enlightened One
Patron
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Quote: from Explosion990 at 4:44 am on July 27, 2009
I hate Americans more. They stole this country from people who had lived here for centuries, murdered their women and children, and then they have the nerve to claim it as "theirs"
You have to keep in mind that the USA was never a country before Whites came. So Whites didn't "Steal" a country because there wasn't one to steal. And to steal, someone must have ownership of it. Since the Amerinds didn't believe in ownership of land, it's impossible to steal from them. We must not forget how Amerinds killed Whites too. Oh, how racist to do so! How racist to look at two sides of something!
------- "One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents... occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik, Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"
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9:59 am on July 27, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2007 | Days Active: 287 Join to learn more about kidd rune Florida, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 10,717 | Points: 14,775
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Takinam
Dairy Product Addict
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You have to keep in mind that the USA was never a country before Whites came. So Whites didn't "Steal" a country because there wasn't one to steal. 
So, they effectively created a country on stolen land. We know that. Will you continue with these formalities? Did the Amerinds have to formally sign documents before you admit what was done was unequivocally wrong and disgraceful for anyone, whites or otherwise, to have done? Or will you continue defending senseless acts as long as they are perpetuated and done by whites?
And to steal, someone must have ownership of it. Since the Amerinds didn't believe in ownership of land, it's impossible to steal from them. 
But the whites did, and if it were taken to a unbiased white court, and if the rule of white law were applied to whites in a Natives vs White case for who would have ownership for the land..the Natives would win. And even if we eliminated that scenario, the Amerinds did believe in sharing the land, and sharing it presumably equally and not like the whites did. So, if you are not sharing it equally, and if you are not sharing it at all, then you are stealing it as it is for everyone.
We must not forget how Amerinds killed Whites too. Oh, how racist to do so! How racist to look at two sides of something!
Yes, they did. But they did not set up mini abuse centers for children in Canada and call them "residential schools", and did not systematically try to destroy white culture. Murder is never justified, but I would rather side with the defenders than the conquesters, whereever they may be. If the whites had not been taking land in the first place, it would not have happened. Post edited at 1:22 pm on July 27, 2009 by Takinam
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kidd rune
Enlightened One
Patron
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So, they effectively created a country on stolen land. We know that. Will you continue with these formalities? Did the Amerinds have to formally sign documents before you admit what was done was unequivocally wrong and disgraceful for anyone, whites or otherwise, to have done? Or will you continue defending senseless acts as long as they are perpetuated and done by whites?
If the Amerinds did not have a claim to the land, it was not stolen. Did I say it wasn't "Wrong" or "disgraceful" at all? I did not. I'd rather not group all of the colonization of the Americas together and give it a label, because that would be dishonest. Since Amerinds never laid claim to the land, it was not stolen.
But the whites did, and if it were taken to a unbiased white court, and if the rule of white law were applied to whites in a Natives vs White case for who would have ownership for the land..the Natives would win. 
No they wouldn't. They laid no claim of ownership. Simply, they just found it and settled on it. Whites came and settled on it too. I'm not saying it wasn't sometimes "unequivocally wrong and disgraceful" but it was not theft.
And even if we eliminated that scenario, the Amerinds did believe in sharing the land, and sharing it presumably equally and not like the whites did. So, if you are not sharing it equally, and if you are not sharing it at all, then you are stealing it as it is for everyone. 
Just because you don't share doesn't mean you're stealing from everyone else. That's nonsense. There is no rule or code which claims you must share something. If it is yours, you should be allowed to share it with whoever you want, and with only who you want to.
Yes, they did. But they did not set up mini abuse centers for children in Canada and call them "residential schools", and did not systematically try to destroy white culture. Murder is never justified, but I would rather side with the defenders than the conquesters, whereever they may be. If the whites had not been taking land in the first place, it would not have happened.
Again, you can't seem to understand that Whites can't "Take" something because it was never anyone else's to take. Perhaps the Amerinds did not create these "Abuse centers" but they did slaughter Whites and scalp them on occasion. In the Massacre of 1622, Amerinds walked into Jamestown to sell, but turned around and attacked the settlers, killing hundreds. One of the reasons Jamestown was chosen for a settlement was because it was not inhabited by Amerinds.
------- "One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents... occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik, Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"
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3:53 pm on July 27, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2007 | Days Active: 287 Join to learn more about kidd rune Florida, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 10,717 | Points: 14,775
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Takinam
Dairy Product Addict
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If the Amerinds did not have a claim to the land, it was not stolen. 
They designated it for "sharing" for everyone (this is for Natives, not Europeans as far as I know) in equal plots. That alone implies possession. Everyone had a plot, everyone had a share. Therefore, the land is owned by everyone. If the Natives did not believe they owned in land, or did not at all believe in ownership, then they would've just let the Europeans have the land without fighting. Obviously, that is NOT what happened. They believed they OWNED it, and thus the Europeans have to TAKE it. If I have a chocolate bar, and you ASK me for it, and I say NO, and you TAKE it. Then you are a thief, do not mistake that.
Did I say it wasn't "Wrong" or "disgraceful" at all? I did not. I'd rather not group all of the colonization of the Americas together and give it a label, because that would be dishonest. 
No, it wouldn't. Colonization in itself is wrong. So, as an extension, it must be so in America as well.
Since Amerinds never laid claim to the land, it was not stolen. 
They did, even when the Europeans asked them to move, most did not. Why? Because they had laid claim to the land or they didn't understand what the Europeans asked. Or they signed faulty documents with figures that were intentionally vague, miscontrued or difficult to understand.
No they wouldn't. They laid no claim of ownership. Simply, they just found it and settled on it. Whites came and settled on it too. I'm not saying it wasn't sometimes "unequivocally wrong and disgraceful" but it was not theft. 
Wrong. When you "push" someone from a plot of land without their permission, you are stealing it. Any land that Natives did not live on was free game, else it was stolen.
Just because you don't share doesn't mean you're stealing from everyone else. That's nonsense. 
Not at all. If you do not follow the rules, you are breaking them, and that is unfair. If you are suppose to share the apples among five of your friends, and you eat all of them, then you are stealing apple sustenance from your friends.
There is no rule or code which claims you must share something. If it is yours, you should be allowed to share it with whoever you want, and with only who you want to. 
Yes, with what is yours. The rules for Native American land were not followed so the Europeans had no idea what was "theirs" or if any was theirs in the first place. You're grossly manipulating their ideals.
Again, you can't seem to understand that Whites can't "Take" something because it was never anyone else's to take. Perhaps the Amerinds did not create these "Abuse centers" but they did slaughter Whites and scalp them on occasion. In the Massacre of 1622, Amerinds walked into Jamestown to sell, but turned around and attacked the settlers, killing hundreds. One of the reasons Jamestown was chosen for a settlement was because it was not inhabited by Amerinds. 
Again, murder is wrong, and it is never justified, but let's not mistake the fact that whites did far worse in much larger numbers with little to no provocation most of the time. Post edited at 4:24 pm on July 27, 2009 by Takinam
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kidd rune
Enlightened One
Patron
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They designated it for "sharing" for everyone (this is for Natives, not Europeans as far as I know) in equal plots. That alone implies possession. Everyone had a plot, everyone had a share. Therefore, the land is owned by everyone. If the Natives did not believe they owned in land, or did not at all believe in ownership, then they would've just let the Europeans have the land without fighting. Obviously, that is NOT what happened. They believed they OWNED it, and thus the Europeans have to TAKE it. If I have a chocolate bar, and you ASK me for it, and I say NO, and you TAKE it. Then you are a thief, do not mistake that. 
You have given a dishonest example. You have a lake you have lived by for a long time. You let anyone drink out of it if you wanted, and when asked if it was yours, you said no. Along comes someone else who drains out the water for his own use. Is that stealing water? No. Asking if it is wrong is an entirely different story altogether. The fact that you said "I have a chocolate bar" makes your comparison incorrect, because the Amerinds never had land. To have is "to possess; own; hold for use; contain" none of these definitions describe the connections the Amerinds had to the land. Remember, we are not arguing whether it was right or wrong, good or bad. We're arguing whether or not it was theft. By definition, it god damn wasn't.
No, it wouldn't. Colonization in itself is wrong. So, as an extension, it must be so in America as well.
You see, that's an opinion. Not only that, it isn't what we're talking about.
They did, even when the Europeans asked them to move, most did not. Why? Because they had laid claim to the land or they didn't understand what the Europeans asked. Or they signed faulty documents with figures that were intentionally vague, miscontrued or difficult to understand.
The Amerinds did not lay claim to the land at all. Ever. They did not believe in ownership of the land. You can't steal something from someone unless they own it. Since the Amerinds did not believe in the concept of private ownership of land, the land was never stolen.
Wrong. When you "push" someone from a plot of land without their permission, you are stealing it. Any land that Natives did not live on was free game, else it was stolen.
Pushing someone from land that isn't theirs is not stealing Takinam. I'm not arguing whether or not it was the right thing to do - it just isn't theft. There's no way to distort the word to make your claims so.
Not at all. If you do not follow the rules, you are breaking them, and that is unfair. If you are suppose to share the apples among five of your friends, and you eat all of them, then you are stealing apple sustenance from your friends.
Where was it written, claimed, or even understood that someone is "Supposed to" share the land? The Amerinds firmly believed it, the Europeans did not. Which makes one right and the other wrong? Show me where European explorers were told they were supposed to share with Amerinds. If the apples had no owner and were on a public tree, and I picked all 5 of the remaining apples and laid claim to them, there is no reason I would have to share it. I most likely would share them, because they are friends. But it's entirely a choice, and European explorers and Amerinds weren't always the best of friends either.
Yes, with what is yours. The rules for Native American land were not followed so the Europeans had no idea what was "theirs" or if any was theirs in the first place. You're grossly manipulating their ideals.
Show me these rules. Show me where they are written down or where they were made clear to the European explorers.
Again, murder is wrong, and it is never justified, but let's not mistake the fact that whites did far worse in much larger numbers with little to no provocation most of the time.
We are not arguing whether murder is wrong or not. Some reasons why your claims are true is because there were more Amerinds, they were less advanced in technology, they had more primitive war-like tactics, and often felt threatened. And no provocation? What provoked the Amerind attack on Jamestown? Whites were not in Amerind land. Now, after that attack it was made very clear Amerinds attacked with no reason at all and a dangerous enemy that could attack at any moment, threatening the life of your people was quite provocation to Europeans at that time. Give it a label if you please, be it "Wrong" or "right" but that's besides the point.
------- "One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents... occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik, Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"
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5:38 pm on July 27, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2007 | Days Active: 287 Join to learn more about kidd rune Florida, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 10,717 | Points: 14,775
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